Help- songwriting and tempo detection (tempo track) questions

[sizzletoes]

I don’t understand how Cubase is set up in terms of tempo.

You can create a tempo track- but it’s empty

You can press command (mac) T and pull up a tempo editor. What is the difference or relationship between these two things?

Also- if I use the tap temp it seems to only insert from wherever the cursor is- WTH is the purpose of that?

I would like to use tap-tempo to give me a basic tempo- then be able to see a tempo map like you can with Logic’s tempo track- I would like to see this relative to the song markers. Let me explain my process a little

I am a singer-songwriter. A typical way to start a song in ernest is for me to grab an acoustic guitar, my condenser mic and sing and play guitar into the mic with some sort of click track- to create a guide track. I will then create location markers for each part of the song. Then I will mess with the tempo if necessary- for example, see if the chorus needs to speed up 1-2 BPM etc..

Now in Logic- there is free recording- which allows me to just start recording with my acoustic and a mic- to REALLY just feel the song like a live performance- and then Logic creates a pretty accurate tempo map from what I played. It then asks me how do you want to use this- do you want to make the project tempo conform to this event etc..

I love Cubase- but it appears that the tempo detection related activities that would help a songwriting process like this are cumbersome.

When recorded freely in Cubase- and tried to detect tempo, it just says “no changes are necessary to the tempo”

What I would love is to play a draft of the song in free form- then be able to look at a recorded tempo may of it- then be able to create an average tempo (one of the options in Logic) Or at least just have Cubase detect what I did, make a tempo map of it- and then I could mess with it manually as part of the songwriting process.

I also think that musical versus time mode is confusing.

What are some tips you might have- or something that I might have been missing from the google efforts so far?

Thanks!

[ASM]

Have you ever tried using the Tempo Detection feature?

[ikos]

@ASM

Have you ever tried using the Tempo Detection feature?

He can try it, but in my experience, automatic tempo detection is really bad in Cubase. It is IMHO much better to use time warping to manually align the grid.

[ASM]

I’ve had different experiences; even with voice and acoustic guitar (no drums), the recognition was (mostly) fine. Of course, it also depends on the rhythmic complexity and the presence of transients. But it’s always worth a try.

[XLColdJ]

@sizzletoes

I don’t understand how Cubase is set up in terms of tempo.

Track Time Base - Cubase Pro - 15.0

@sizzletoes

You can create a tempo track- but it’s empty

It’s not empty. When the Tempo Track is activated, there’s an editable line which is set to the initial tempo you have configured for the project.

@sizzletoes

You can press command (mac) T and pull up a tempo editor. What is the difference or relationship between these two things?

They’re for the same thing. The tempo editor is for editing the tempo track. The tempo track is mainly for viewing the tempo(s).

@sizzletoes

Also- if I use the tap temp it seems to only insert from wherever the cursor is- WTH is the purpose of that?

That’s what you have configured. You can change it.

@sizzletoes

I would like to use tap-tempo to give me a basic tempo- then be able to see a tempo map like you can with Logic’s tempo track

In Cubase you can set the default tempo for the tempo track (as mentioned above), and you can see any tempo changes on the tempo track.

@sizzletoes

Now in Logic- there is free recording- which allows me to just start recording with my acoustic and a mic- to REALLY just feel the song like a live performance- and then Logic creates a pretty accurate tempo map from what I played. It then asks me how do you want to use this- do you want to make the project tempo conform to this event etc..

You can do the same stuff in Cubase–but it’s not going to ask you any questions.

@sizzletoes

I love Cubase- but it appears that the tempo detection related activities that would help a songwriting process like this are cumbersome.

It’s fairly straightforward once you figure out how everything works. You have complete control over the tempo changes throughout the project.

@sizzletoes

When recorded freely in Cubase- and tried to detect tempo, it just says “no changes are necessary to the tempo”

What did you try to detect the tempo with?

@sizzletoes

What I would love is to play a draft of the song in free form- then be able to look at a recorded tempo may of it- then be able to create an average tempo (one of the options in Logic)

An “average tempo” seems kind of counterproductive. If you want a specific tempo, why not just set it up, or tap it in, and record at that tempo? If you want slower or faster parts in the recording, you wouldn’t want them all set to some average tempo.

@sizzletoes

Or at least just have Cubase detect what I did, make a tempo map of it- and then I could mess with it manually

You can do that for sure.

@sizzletoes

as part of the songwriting process

I’m not sure what that means to you. If you’re just trying to “free form” capture an idea–just record it and use it for future reference when recording the final performance. For me, part of the songwriting and recording process is committing to the tempos I’m going to use in the final recordings.

@sizzletoes

I also think that musical versus time mode is confusing.

This video explains it clearly:

FINALLY Understand Musical & Linear Time in Cubase (It’s Simpler Than You Think)

@sizzletoes

What are some tips you might have- or something that I might have been missing from the google efforts so far?

It would probably be easier to work with if you go through the relevant sections of the manual to get a general idea of what’s going on, and then search on Google for things that aren’t clear. There are some good videos showing how the tempo detection works, and how to use it.

The main thing is to decide what you’re trying to accomplish–do you want the tempo to follow the audio, the audio to follow the tempo, or do you want to define custom tempos and play along with the metronome.

[sizzletoes]

Wow- thank you SO much for this post- I really appreciate it. I have some reading to do. Really appreciate you taking the time to do it.

[sizzletoes]

So- in this instance- I create a tempo track “T” key then what appears to be an empty track shows up. Now, all the while, when I press command-T I pull up an almost full screen editor which shows some tempo changes at the beginning (or where the cursor was) - let’s say three automation dots in different positions. Those dots were not reflected on the tempo track that I could see. This is why I thought they were not related to each other.

You asked what I used to detect temp- with the audio event selected I used detect tempo from region, or something like that. There is another option involving tempo detection that didn’t seem relevant to what I was trying to do though.

I am going to do a deep dive though- thanks again!

[sizzletoes]

So… just for posterity’s sake. I went back and realized that I had accidentally created and audio track and named it tempo. Which is why nothing was showing up on the “tempo” track when I would make changes- DUH

It turns out, as it usually does with Cubase, that there is a whole world of awesomeness when you dive into tempo management. One thing that really jacked me up is using the “ramp” vs “step” feature on the tempo automation. That is just great.

It turns out that I can do what I need to do in spades. Thank again for your excellent feedback!

[XLColdJ]

@sizzletoes

I went back and realized that I had accidentally created and audio track and named it tempo.

oops

@sizzletoes

It turns out, as it usually does with Cubase, that there is a whole world of awesomeness when you dive into tempo management. One thing that really jacked me up is using the “ramp” vs “step” feature on the tempo automation. That is just great.

I’m glad you got it figured out