Help with systems and layout in Dorico versions

I’ve been using Dorico SE 6 on mac after previously using Sibelius on PC. I’m currently trying to create a simple sheet showing various examples of patterns and sequences for jazz improvisation. I’m using a lead sheet template as I literally only need to show one stave for each example.

I want each example to start on a new line/system and assumed I could just notate all the patterns and then deal with the layout later.

Having written all the sequences, I tried adding manual system breaks after each example, but it looks terrible. For example, on the first system, I just want to show a simple major scale in half-notes, which takes 8 bars, but Dorico automatically put 7 measures on the first line and the eighth measure at the beginning of the second line.

If I put a system break at the end of bar 8, it then displays 3 bars on the first line and five on the second. I could theoretically add another system break after bar 4 to make it 2 four-bar systems, but this seems to take up a huge amount of space to show a major scale. It would look way better if the first line was 8 bars long (especially as it’s entirely half notes). I’ve removed the indent at the beginning of the frame, but it makes no difference to the number of bars per line.

The second pattern shows a major scale ascending in alternating thirds, which takes 7 measures. Putting a system break at the end of that, creates a layout with five bars on one line and 2 on the other.

I tired using flow breaks at the beginning of each pattern, but apparently SE won’t put a new flow anywhere other than on a new page.

I think I might be able to create a default number of bars per system using ‘casting off’ setting, but this still wouldn’t help with examples that aren’t 4 or 8 bars long. Each example is predicated on the seven-note major scale over one or two octaves, so some sequences are 3 or 7 bars long.

Is there a way to make Dorico reconsider its layout after adding system breaks so it displays things more logically, or is it impossible without the ‘make into system’ feature? After googling, I understand this feature is not available in SE. Is it available in Elements, or do I have to spend £450 for pro to do something I could do easily 10 years ago in the £20 Finale Songwriter software!?

I’m pulling my hair out here as I’ve just spent about 10 hours reading tutorials and getting used to the workflow and note input conventions and shortcuts of Dorico, but it now it seems like I can’t get a very, very basic couple of pages of music to lay out in a way that doesn’t look ridiculous.

It took some getting used to, but I found I could input notes quite quickly after a while and am open to upgrading to elements if it does what I need, but 99% of what I notate is tuition material for students and lead sheets for jazz combos - I really can’t justify the price of pro for that. Am I doing something wrong, or should I just give up and look for other software?

Welcome to the forum, @Minim88 !

It’s hard to give specific advice without seeing your project file, but in general I think the issue is that SE doesn’t give you Engrave mode, which lets you adjust how your music is laid out on the page. Elements does, and it gives you more control over layout – but there are certain things, like adjusting page headings, that are only available in Pro. There’s a page on the Dorico website that compares the editions.

Dorico is always recalculating the layout of your music, given the settings you have chosen and some of the manual changes you have made.

I would suggest that you download the trial of the Pro version, which will give you 60 days to experiment. Once you have this installed, you can actually run it either as Pro or as Elements, so that you can compare the versions and see which one gives you what you need.

If you decide to get Pro, since you already have Sibelius, the crossgrade price is $300, much less than the regular full price. (And if you have a licensed copy of Finale, there’s an even less expensive crossgrade available through MakeMusic.)

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Hi @Minim88, adding to the excellent advices by @asherber, if you are a Teacher or Student, and you have a Sibelius (or Capella) licence, you can take advantage of the Education > Competitive Crossgrade (if during or after the 60 days trial you decide to buy Dorico 6 Pro):


There is also an Education discount for Dorico 6 Elements.


For the requirements see this page:

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In any version of Dorico one can open the Layout Editor and use Note Spacing to pull notes closer together or change the Staff-line spacing to create smaller staves. Using one or both these options should allow one to put eight bars of scale tones on a single system.

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Thank you all for the responses, I appreciate your time.

@asherber I have looked at the comparison tables, but I was confused about Engrave mode. Under ‘engraving’ the table shows Pro being ‘customisable’, but all other versions as ‘fixed’. This made me wonder if you did actually have access to Engrave mode and the ‘make into system’ command in Elements. Are you sure I’d have those options in Elements? I’d be ok with the price of Elements, but for the things I’d use it for currently, I just couldn’t justify the cost of Pro.

@Derrek Thanks for that, although I think that the spacings you suggest are global settings for the score - so whilst that might let me get 8 bars on one line for my first example, it’d cause issues with the other examples. I think I really need the ‘make into system’ command, which just isn’t available in SE.

You should be able to download a free 60 day trial of Dorico. This gives you access to all three flavours so you can explore the differences in detail and make informed choices.

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Yes, you do have Engrave mode and “Make Into System”. What you don’t have is the ability to edit page templates.

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That’s cool. @asherber said something similar earlier, but I didn’t quite twig that you could put the trial into ‘elements’ mode and and try it that way, so thanks.

You just hold down a modifier key when launching Dorico (ctrl- loads SE, alt- loads Elements)

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Got it! Appreciate your help - it sounds like Elements will be the way to go, but I’ll download the full trial and see how I get on.

Tbh, I could probably do what I need to do for this project in musescore, but having invested time into learning the basics of the Dorico interface, I kind of want to stick with it.

It’s quite different to Sibelius and I couldn’t get my head around it at first, but once I started to get the hang of it and realised how important the keyboard shortcuts are, I found myself getting quicker and starting to see the advantages of the Dorico workflow.

It does look way nicer than musescore too.

Thanks for the information on the crossgrade offers. :+1: