hide cautionary clefs, keys and time signature


Is it possible to hide cautionary clefs, keys and time signature?


No, because Dorico’s approach to multiple flows should mean you don’t need to. Under what circumstances do you find that you need to hide these items?

Hi Daniel,

I’m workin’ on a method for violin and sometimes the subsequent exercise has a new key but the previous one has to be treated as an independent entity (double bar, no cautionary clefs, keys and time signature).

If I understand well, writing the exercises as single flows get I the wanted behavior?


Exactly, that’s what multiple flows are for. If you don’t want each flow to start on a new page, see Page Setup in Layout Options.

It is difficult to change old habits (Fin/Sib)…

Many thanks, as always.

is there a way to hide cautionary key changes (and time signatures) without starting a new flow?

That’s what Daniel just said: no, that’s what flows are for. Having said this, it would be handy sometimes but, in my case, this would usually be in a situation in which I’d imported a multi-movement file via XML and I’d need a quick and easy way not to show the cautionaries. I seem to remember, however, that the possibility to divide a file into flows will become easier in a future update.

what about movements with tempo and clef changes?
Do I have to always start a new flow there? What, if I don’t want a reminder in the system above?
We need this kind if flexibility.

The way things stand now, if you want cautionaries, keep the music in the same flow. If you don’t, create a new flow. That’s pretty flexible and the Dorico team has said that a future version will have a way to separate music into different flows easily.

this seems quite odd, I’d at least like to keep movements in one flow. And like to decide myself, wether cautionary signs should be there, yes or no. May be even change my mind in between…

I agree with k_b on this issue – if I want to hide a cautionary clef, key or time signature I shouldn’t have to break the music into different flows. That interrupts the “flow” of my creativity when I’m trying to produce an elegantly printed musical work. I hope that someday we’ll be able to hide or show, in score or in any/all parts, whatever we would like to see or hide. That is one of the most helpful aspects about Sibelius – it makes it so easy to get just what I want on the printed page.

While I can see a few reasons to be able to hide cautionary clefs, time signatures, and key signatures. I also think that Dorico’s method is quite great. I think it will be easier, once you get the ability to break up a current flow into numerous other flows.

While we wait for that function… you could always got to town writing one long piece, and then when you are done simply copy and paste the “movements” into new flows into a new file. That method allows for your creative thought process not to be diminished, and then you can utilize the strengths of Dorico in not having to “trick” the program.

Just a thought.


One could easily make a template for an exercise book, with several flows per page of one or two lines each. Perhaps Dorico can supply one or more such templates in future.

If I want to reproduce an original score 1:1 I would not like my software to tell me, what would be a better solution.
A good exercise for typesetting is copying an old score, respecting the habits of that time.
Also the human brain does not work in a completely logical way, it is more subtle. Sometimes one needs cautionary signs, sometimes it might be better not to have them.


I agree wholeheartedly! I made this point in the thread about the Goldberg variations aria as well as in the one about secondary beam breaks. While a lot of things can already be adjusted, there are still many things which cannot. The premise ‘we know what correct notation is (anno 2016)’ is very handy for a lot of notation but it can only go so far when we’re talking about several centuries of literature.

I want to make a single page with all 15 major scales on it and I don’t want courtesy key signatures. Does this mean I have to have 15 flows? And then create 15 frames on the page? Is there an easy way to do this. Easier than creating the 15 scales in one flow?

I’m a little disappointed in Daniel’s earlier response. “Why would you want to do this?” The response to a user request for a feature should be “ticket added.” This reminds me of Sibelius in its early days. The manual would actually talk about the user wanting to do something “weird.” And the software made it hard to do the “weird” things.

Yes, you should use 15 flows, but you don’t have to create 15 frames, just allow new flows to start on the existing page. (Layout options>Page Setup>Flows… )

I also find it very strange that a new key signature without cautionary means a new flow-start. Are there any other restrictions concerning what one cannot do within a single flow?


That’s an awfully broad question, so the answer is almost certainly “yes,” but exactly what is more difficult to pin down. No doubt those of us who use the program find these limitations (undocumented features :unamused: ) as we attempt to do something that is not possible. In spite of the documentation available via web, PDF, and video, we are still very much in an experimental stage of learning what this evolving program can do.

That can be exciting and frustrating both, and as Walter Cronkite used to say, “That’s the way it is.”.