Hiding cautionary time signatures in Dorico 5

Hi folks! Could I hide cautionary time signatures in Dorico 5?
or the option is not available yet? :cry:

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I don’t think so? a Coda is still the workaround for now.

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It would be a good option. Despite the ‘rules’, a lot of people do not like or want them. We should be able to choose.

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Most folks who want to avoid the cautionary time signatures (and key signatures) are formatting exercises though, rather than doing what Imanuel is doing.

I wouldn’t expect this to change anytime soon or ever. I’ve not heard of a fundamental reason why it couldn’t be done (there may be one), but Daniel is sticking to his guns on this one :person_shrugging:

Which I can appreciate. There are workarounds which aren’t a great hardship, really it’s only a bother for people because otherwise the application is such a treat and so flexible. My suspicion is that it gets to the core design of the Flow system. Flows are there (perhaps) for just this reason - you want a break in the continuity of the music. Why not have, for example, multiple flows for a single movement in a symphony, if not to prevent cautionaries?

I think the problem then is that people don’t think of Flows as a formatting tool but a structural tool (e.g. one flow per movement). But here (maybe) we get to some schizophrenia - because Flows do contain structural information, namely a title etc (Ctrl-I dialog).

So anyhow Flows have a dual nature, structural and formatting, and the two do intersect in that you want to break formatting (no cautionaries) at structural breaks (Flow break). I suspect that’s Daniel’s thinking but really it could be anything, maybe it is a hard problem. Personally I’d just give in to the mob with the torches and pitchforks and put a property on time and key sigs to disable a cautionary.

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I suspect there will always be work-arounds, since some folks are very creative and constantly see new possibilities and want to find ways to express them whereas software programmers are unlikely to program ahead of these explorations.

I agree that flows are useful for (e.g.) exercises, but currently seem to carry an overhead in speed and organization for users, particularly when they become numerous. At the same time, I expect the Development Team would rather work to make flows more efficient (which would benefit everyone) rather than programming individual work-arounds to omit such things as courtesy time and key signatures.

I guess we shall see.

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I usually just use hidden Codas for this, but it does seem very clunky and inelegant when compared to how the rest of the program works. For some educational handouts I end up with 50 or more Codas! A Notation Option to simply suppress cautionary time sigs and/or key sigs for a Flow could fix this with a click.

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I’ve posted about an idea that I think Flows could use more structural content. Like Folders, which contain Flows. This should solve any aversion to using flows to prevent cautionaries, say you have a half dozen flows all for a movement, well if they’re all in the “First Movement” folder then no worries, and set there to be a delay of 0 seconds between them.

Yeah agree, codas are too much of a glorious hack for me. Flows are the right answer, but they just need a little extension IMO (never say ‘little’ when it comes to software features :grin: )

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Flows are just way slower to add than Codas. I then have more vertical positioning to fix, and there’s some evidence that the program runs slower once you add dozens of Flows. Hidden codas are just more efficient to input. It’s just odd that they’ve chosen to ignore two complete genres, educational handouts and patterned exercises, where no cautionaries is the standard accepted notation in those styles.

This obviously has been discussed to death, but examples include Hanon:

Maquarre Daily Exercises:

and so on …

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Available as of now in 5.1 :pray:

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