Can’t find how to change this dorico default:
To this:
Start with the following:
Select the start repeat barline and delete it. Select the bar rest in the 2/4 measure and type Shift-B +1z Return:
Select the barline before the 64th rest and change it to a start repeat barline. Select the barline after the 64th rest and change it to a tick barline. With the tick barline selected in engrave mode, change the Tick adj. property so that Out and In are set to -1/2:
Select the 64th rest and change its Color property so that Alpha channel on Windows or Opacity on macOS is set to zero:
In note spacing mode, select the square handle just after the start repeat barline and move it to the left as far as possible:
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Obviously a clever workaround. But is this really Dorico’s default? I don’t have Gould within reach right now, so I can’t check what she has to say about it, but I think the default is indeed rather ugly.
It isn’t. The common convention – also suggested by Gould – is to place the time signature before the start repeat.
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@johnkprice
Great thanks for your answer and workaround
Sorry English is not my language, so when I spoke with the term « default » I spoke as « default setting »
Although that Gould suggest to write time signature before, I never saw this??!!
It’s a little strange for me: when eyes must quickly search the repeat signs, force to look before the repeat sign is a little destabilizing ??! (at least for me)
@benwiggy
thanks for the picture!
indeed….but even if it’s almost the season, it still looks a bit like a Christmas garland haha!
I just spent ten minutes looking through a whole bunch of Glass, Reich, Nyman, Andriessen, Feldman, Michael Gordon and I found just one example from 1995 where the engraver follows Gould here, and it looks wrong to me too.
Sounds like a candidate for a Notation Option. What I also saw in some of the Glass scores was a hybrid - Gould-style when 1) cautionary time signatures are being used at the ends of systems and 2) the repeat section begins at the start of a new system.
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Eh, Gould’s advice is “correct” with this. Even my hand copying books state that the time sig goes outside the repeat. Here’s Roemer:
That said, the “incorrect” way is quite commonly found too, especially in hand copied parts. I’m sure the devs don’t want to spend time coding “incorrect” notation, but this seems to be wanted often enough that perhaps it could be considered as an option.
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Not at all - Gould merely agrees with Roemer.
She doesn’t agree with Boosey and Hawkes:
or Universal:
or Ricordi:
or Glass’s Dunvagen:
I could go on…
And yes, this is how I want my repeats to look
She is in agreement with Boosey’s current style as B&H’s own style guide places any “change of signature” outside of the repeat bars. The image just shows a key signature, but I think it’s safe to assume their current style would place a change of time signature there too by the way they worded that.
not necessarily - they’re pretty consistent with their Reich scores
and change of signature, I’d agree
I would say that it depends on whether the change of time sig is part of the repeated material. In the examples you posted (at least 1, 3, and 4 – can’t tell about 2), the repeated section appears to end in a different time sig than what it started in. So the time sig needs to be part of the repeat, because you need to know that the time sig is different when you go back.
In the examples that Gould and Roemer give, the time sig change happens before the repeated material; when you take the repeat, you’re still in the same time sig.
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True for 1 but not the others.
But, regardless, Dorico won’t do even that without a fight.
I’ve no problem at all with someone wanting to go with the Roemer look, but to say that what the OP and I would like is ‘incorrect’ or unusual is just not true and is unnecessarily prescriptive.
Notation Options for this please
Thank you! Although Gould puts the meter before the repeat per modern practice, many publishers still prefer the traditional method of placing the meter after the repeat when it occurs mid-system. Both are correct. Our house style has always been to follow this traditional method. We believe it looks better. It would be nice if the engraving software platforms made this an either or choice in a setting.
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