Yes, I already outlined it:
Good morning. Were you ever able to create the template? I am also trying to recreate the mixing template of Jaycen Joshua in Cubase but not having much luck.
He used it in serial,
Basically the drums M ( NLS ) goes into the C Drums ( Shadow hills blackbox ect.) and than into all drums.
you can do the same by creating an aux or channel for drums m and rout the output into another aux called drums c. i think he did it that way because you cannot have 8 nls and the whole drumbus plugins on one channel
…as I was saying…
I don’t think anyone has ever asked Jaycen why does he use the Master faders vs say VCAs? Or now if he was rethinking or newly designing his template would he use Folder Tracks (only recently available in PT)?
VCAs would seem to have an advantage similar yo Folder group tracks.
But, if you see how he works rarely at least is he ever rebalancing faders or levels using faders. Its possible his assistants get everything to a balance or null, then he adjusts levels every other which way.
His way works and seems easy to recreate Master faders per the above solution. Though seems like Cubase has even better approached to do the serial feeds and grouping layers and levels of grouping that works upward in his template to the master bus.
His philosophy is little adjustments voltage wise as those levels and such feed together to masters then to all groups then to master…
VCA faders do not carry any audio by themselves so they’re not comparable to “Master Faders” in Pro Tools.
Yea, sorry - wasn’t thinking about the multiple uses of Master Faders and why and that they are really unique to Pro Tools especially how Master Faders basically automatically determine their INPUT based on what the OUTPUT is set to…
So, this might help others coming to this thread:
Setting the OUTPUT is saying which OUTPUT do you want to pick up… in this case as stated - which bus output do you want to pick up? A: C DRUMS
So you create a Master Fader and name it: C DRUMS M
And you assign the OUTPUT of the Master Fader you want to derive its input or feed to it → C DRUMS e.g. “the output of the bus = output means which!”
So all audio or instruments or aux tracks = you assign to C DRUMS bus = that info goes down signal wise through that bus “wire” and at its output of the bus then: BUS OUTPUT → GOES TO → C DRUMS M
C DRUMS is serial to C DRUMS M (fader itself controls C DRUMS)
The INSERTS on C DRUMS M are all: POST ITS FADER (by law, no way around it) AND THAT FADER again controls or is really C DRUMS signal BUT NOTHING HAS REACHED ANY OUTPUT TO HEAR YET!
So C DRUMS M are POST FADER, of same wire, signal flow happening before the BUS processing; then comes: C DRUMS INSERTS and those are PRE-FADER, before its output fader to whatever destination is next in line.
Someone on the Avid DUC explained the order:
- “Master Fader Track” Volume Fader
- “Master Fader Track” Inserts (as the inserts on the “Master Fader Track” are POST Fader)
- “Auxiliary Input Track” Inserts (as these inserts are PRE Fader)
- “Auxiliary Input Track” Volume Fader.
But for those of us or which those who don’t use PT (or ever have) the UI doesn’t explain the routing (exactly) and it isn’t so obvious as to how Master Faders work or what they are for (when using multiple vs 1)…
But, as said - I guess really PT’s Master Fader concept is to have multiple and each is set to catch the signal of the bus as said above to then have that add the layer of color per what someone said above… And possibly if you did something with the fader it could control the sends pre-fader without disrupting any on the master fader post-fader signal flow.
From PT manual (see the uses of MFs):
Jaycen’s template = he does parallel thru other ADDITIVE BUSSES:
Example: TRANSFORMER bus = uses SEND to feed an AUX then that will feed straight to ALL DRUMS; other examples: Louder, Subwoofer ~ sends to an AUX which then are assigned to ALL DRUMS
Looks like where Cubase uses a general approach ProTools still uses specific terms to cater to older people.
In your diagram the Master Fader of ProTools would be a Group Track in Cubase with all insert slots set to post fader. The bus in ProTools would again be a Group Track in Cubase but with all insert slots set to pre fader.
And your point #1 “assign to route to C Drums bus” is totally unecessary in Cubase. You assign the tracks to the first group. Then you assing that to the second group.
No offense, when I say “you” I don’t mean to attack your diagram but merely referring to it.
Hey! Yea no this is why I posted the documentation around Pro Tools in how it literally works, it’s what you said precisely - their way of describing things is very rooted in its origin and decades of something just working, and that so much of their demographic are folks that have been using it for eons.
The fact they basically just got “routing folders” actually rids of the need for their idea of “Aux tracks” and all that old world language too.
Anyhow, hope it helps others in the future crystalize what they are trying to mirror/replicate…
Cubase - ideally, I assumed that is the best best way to do it w/ all the flexibility and more usert centric options for routing and track and group and folder types available? GROUP and GROUP?
Also, the approach in Pro Tools he uses to control the discrete levels would be adding VCA’s or Clip Gain on the individual Tracks depending on the amount of processing on each ~ so I should add that point in the diagram.
Jaycen Joshua Template - Cubase.cpr.zip (421.4 KB)
Based on all the great suggestions here in this topic, I was able to built this template. Feel free to download and use it for your mixing projects. (*note: All empty audio tracks are just dummy tracks. You can replace them with your tracks but remember to route them to their respective Group Tracks, very important)
I tried my best to emulate the PT template of Jaycen Joshua, watching all his video tutorial of Mix With The Master series. All the plugins I used are exactly the plugins he is using in his PT template, with his exact settings.
The only BIG difference here is the missing Master Fader which I replaced with Group Tracks, going in series (example: drum track > C Drums M > C Drums All > Drum & Bass > All Drums > Mixbus). Obviously the sound is not even close to the PT sound, the usage of PT Master Fader is totally different from Cubase Group Tracks. I did a lot of Null Tests and there is quite a difference between this two types of routing. At one point I just gave up! The purpose here is not to “imitate” Jaycen Joshua but be inspired by him and use his knowledge and experience to built my own sound and template.
Let me know if this template is useful to you.
Thank you for taking the time to give us all these informations.
This diagram is very interesting but I’m afraid it’s a little off-topic. It describes beautifully the PT routing but the usage of Master Fader makes it completely useless for people like me who want to emulate the JJ Template in Cubase. This is exactly the reason why I created this topic.
I think it’s irrelevant the usage of Pre/Post Fader inputs or sends, referring exclusively to this emulation of Jaycen Joshua’s mixing template. The fader on all his “M” tracks (“M” indicating it’s a Master Fader track) remains always at unity 0, and he never touches this fader during all his mixing process. All the automations are done either directly on the single tracks themself (most of the cases) or on the Group tracks (very rarely, not recommended).
Hey sorry but I use Cubase, and most of this thread is people confused by the routing Jaycen is using and mainly because people don’t grasp what the “M” fader is and thus that is the diagram of what any of us are trying to mimic in Cubase in all its glory. The diagram and all I did was to help book end the confusion with less confusion.
Also, none of the rest of his approach or faders and what he does with them is anything I am commenting on, simply showing the model to mimic.
Great thread… Exciting seeing people picking up the topic. More here than over in the MWTM community, so very cool.