Bizarrely, I searched this question here, and funny my name came up in a discussion as writing this sound. But a phryg maj. 3rd sound isn’t unusual – it’s at the heart of flamenco. I’d also like to be able to write a Cmi2. Dorico now allows me create a C2 by typing in Csus2. But C(b2) or Cmi2 is eluding me. Is there a way I’m missing?
Would this suffice? Cm(b9)
Hi Derrek, So no, unfortunately, because a b9 implies there’s a 7th, and I don’t want 7ths in this case. A C(b2) is simply C, Db, F, Ab. And I can’t find a way to write Cmi2 either (C, D, Eb, G). The only way I can do that is to have it say, Cmi(add2). For the C(b2) I had to write C(addDb) which is a little weird. I think it added a note on it’s own, but it wasn’t actually a b2. It was a wrong note… I’d have to try again to see what it produced… but I fixed it. I wish there was a way to do these chords. Sometimes I’ll write C(b2,b6), and that one really went off the rails. I can’t remember how I worked around that.
Oops, typo… A C(b2) is C, Db, E, G. Sorry!!! Too late here.
Speaking as a guitar player, if I saw this chord, I’d avoid adding the 7th:
I read the Cmi part of your chord symbol as asking for an Eb, a C minor chord to start with. As you see, Dorico realized the Cm(b9) without the 7th when I used Dorico’s Generate note from Chord Symbol feature.
I live and learn.
( And welcome to the forum! )
Please allow me to add my own welcome to the forum, Maria.
I’m afraid Cm2 isn’t part of Dorico’s repertoire of chord symbols, though I’ll talk to the team about adding it. You’d need to trick Dorico into showing this, perhaps by sacrificing another chord that you don’t use often.
I know this seems a faintly ridiculous notion, but perhaps you don’t write too many power chords (i.e. open fifths with no third at all), in which case you could set Appearance of open fifth to 5 only on the Chord Symbols page of Engraving Options.
Next, go to Library > Chord Symbols and enter e.g. C5 into the box in the top left. You’ll then see C5 in the main preview. Select the 5 in the preview, and look at the little row of symbols below the preview, where the 5 also appears: click the pencil icon there to edit the 5 digit.
Now select the 5 in the new preview and click the trash can to remove it. On the right, select the Text tab, and choose the Chord Symbols Font text style from the drop-down. Enter m2 into the Enter your text here box, then click Add Text. Confirm this dialog, and the parent dialog.
Now when you enter a chord symbol of e.g. G5 you’ll see Gm2 in the score instead.
You can already do this. If you input the chord as “Cm(add2)” then you can change this option in Engraving Options:
And that will then give you this:
Richard,
It looks now as if Maria wants a major triad with a minor second added (which was not clear to me from the beginning).
Cm or C-, to me, specifies a minor chord (regardless of what follows) rather than an added minor second. I admit, I am not a jazz chord symbol guru, but I find this dichotomy of what these chord symbols mean very confusing.
How to get the minor second added appears to be only part of the problem here.
Ah, you’re quite right, I’d misread the original post - Dorico can do an added b9 but not a b2.
If there’s any confusion, here’s an example of that b2 sound Maria is asking for:
Emilio is playing a C#(b2), or really C#(b2,b6) right at the beginning of this tune and then resolves down to C(b2). He even outlines the scale with his RH line around 9 seconds in.
If definitely seems like nomenclature that Dorico should support as it’s not uncommon.
Indeed. All this nomenclature seems to be off the mark. I think the clearest way to write this such that it won’t be misinterpreted is C(add b2), but I presume that isn’t recognized by Dorico.
Of course, one could go with Dbm(b5)/C, which is how I would think of this cluster in the first place.
I wouldn’t mind seeing the (add b2) supported, but really, isn’t that opening C# more of a pedal bass than the root of the chord? That’s how I would have notated it anyway.
I hear you, but I think that’s the Composer hat versus guitarist hat most likely- Shapes that come from the guitar’s tuning and traditions.
Y’all realize you’re arguing about nomenclature with Maria Schneider, right? Like this Maria Schneider:
“Maria Schneider’s music has been hailed by critics as “evocative, majestic, magical, heart-stoppingly gorgeous, imaginative, revelatory, riveting, daring, and beyond categorization.” Blurring the lines between genres, her varied commissioners stretch from Jazz at Lincoln Center, to The Saint Paul Chamber Orchestra, to the American Dance Festival, and include collaboration with David Bowie. She is among a small few to receive GRAMMYS in multiple genres, having received the award in jazz and classical, as well as for her work with David Bowie.
…
Schneider’s many honors also include: 14 GRAMMY-nominations, 7 GRAMMY Awards, numerous Jazz Journalists Association awards, DOWNBEAT and JAZZTIMES Critics and Readers Polls awards, an honorary doctorate from her alma mater, the University of Minnesota, ASCAP’s esteemed Concert Music Award (2014), the nation’s highest honor in jazz, “NEA Jazz Master” (2019), election into the 2020 American Academy of Arts and Sciences, and 2023 induction into the American Academy of Arts and Letters.”
I’m pretty sure she understands what nomenclature she requires.
I think I was suggesting that she has her reasons for wanting what she wants. But nope, I didn’t know.
I think the real point is that chord symbols can be interpreted different ways. People have varied ways of thinking about these things, and we express our desired result in varied ways. This whole discussion proves that people do things in a multitude of ways. There are many of us longing to be able to have more flexibility (in an already magnificently flexible program) so that the program doesn’t determine how we write, but that we can use the program to express our ideas and wishes. There are all sorts of unique chords and scales to be written. It’s likely a complex issue from a programming standpoint, but hopefully one that has some solutions. Thanks to all for chiming in. It’s illustrates that there are things to look at.
I understand this is not exactly what is required, but it is possible to do this (which is at least unambiguous).