hyphenated lyric at end of system

If one encounters a hyphenated word at the end of a system – using a syncopated over the bar-line rhythm like this (see attached image), two hyphens will be auto-inserted, the first of which will overlap the word. This is reproducible behavior. I only discovered this today because I just printed a piece that had several of these types hyphens at the ends of systems. I’ve found they can be corrected in engrave mode – I wouldn’t have caught these without looking very closely. Would be great to have this little quirk ratified in the future. Thanks.

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My guess is this is happening because the spacing is too tight to fit everything automatically. If you have fewer bars per system or increase note spacing a bit I bet this won’t happen anymore. I do not, by and large, ever have to adjust hyphens in my scores and I use lyrics every day.

Romanos, while you’re right that it’s to do with the spacing being too tight, it’s not exactly difficult to reproduce this, and I’ll admit that this one trips me up frequently. The issue, as I understand it, is that if you have a “Start” syllable at the end of a line, Dorico won’t create extra space for the hyphen. If you have a “Start” syllable anywhere else in the system, you can clearly see that Dorico does make space for the hyphen.

Oh, and note that Dorico thinks that the first system is only 91% full.

Project attached - the only thing that’s not factory is that I’ve set Layout Options to exclude staff labels.
spacing.dorico.zip (484 KB)

This has tripped me up regularly, as well. Even when the syllable isn’t left-aligned but is on the long side, Dorico can also, under similarly crowded circumstances, leave too little space for the hyphen.

Same for me. I hope this issue will be solved soon, because sometimes I forget to make sure none of these hyphens get in the way and send bad engravings… only to discover these failures later.

Thanks for corroborating this discovery in song, Pianoleo. (Your musical example is far more creative than mine.)

I just wanted to demonstrate that with a realistic quantity of notes and syllables on a system, with factory settings, your observed behaviour plays out. I plead “not guilty” to the alleged creativity, though :stuck_out_tongue:

Interesting. Does a middle syllable behave the same way? Perhaps most of my breaks have either been lucky enough to have ample room or they have been middle syllables. Typically I have to adjust the tight spacing of a hyphen that is too close to the end of a word at the beginning of the next system, but rarely at the end as shown above.

A related, but separate issue, I’ve felt that the space (mid system) allotted to hyphens has been increased in D3 and often seems to be too much. I’ve personally dealt with multiple scores where Dorico wants to put more space in the middle of a word where a hyphen is than between words. This typically manifests most obviously with 8th/16th notes. At first, that statement seems obvious… there’s an extra character between the syllables (the hyphen) but in practice it can be quite odd. Words on quarternotes that nearly run on together and then short syllables on 8th notes that have wayyy too much space.

I need to discuss this issue with Andrew, which I will do next week.

Thanks Daniel.

@dspreadbury Is there any progress on this? I’m in the middle of a 200-page project and am bumping into this constantly.

I’m afraid as yet there’s been no change in this area, no. We know in principle what needs to be done, but it’s tricky enough to achieve that we need to set aside a not insubstantial amount of time to implement it. Sorry for the inconvenience in the meantime.

Sorry for the necrobump here, but just wanted to confirm there hasn’t been any change with this. All end of system hyphen collisions like below still need to be manually adjusted?

For context, there’s plenty of room on both this system and the next:

Are there settings to help avoid this? I’ve ran into this a few times lately, so figured I’d stop and ask rather than keep manually adjusting them.

The only thought I have is that this example has enough room to center the “man-” syllable on that note, which is what the hyphen placement appears to be expecting. But obviously there isn’t always enough room for that.

A few clicks on the handle at the end of the bar adjusts it, so it’s not really hard to manually fix.

The bigger issue for me honestly is that it’s yet another thing I have to be on alert to proof for. I’d love to be able to eliminate as many proofreading steps as possible!


I agree. As I work a lot with vocal music, this is a problem I stumble upon quite often. I hope this will be fixed eventually.