Well, that’s a hard nut to crack. On the one hand, I understand OP’s gripes - Cubase is not bug-free; it suffers from suboptimal CPU core use on Windows systems (multiple threads suggesting the Audiogridder workaround), it can crash randomly when doing normal stuff like adding a plug-in or moving tracks. It even occasionally crashes when using the SpectraLayers extension (which was designed to work hand in hand flawlessly). I get that, and I’ve been frustrated more than enough.
At the same time, I decided to continue using it, as I have for the last 25 years. It still has the best possible workflow for me, regardless of what I do - whether I’m mixing/mastering, producing or writing songs. I decided to continue reporting bugs, voting for new features, buying updates, and investing in Steinberg software. Throughout the years, I’ve learned other DAWs: Pro Tools, Logic, Ableton Live, Reaper, and Luna. I still prefer Cubase over all of them, for many reasons. When you’ve invested so much money and time to learn the software inside out, I feel it makes more sense to stick with it and try to fix it. This is what this forum is for. Nobody is stopping you from reporting bugs, and when we as a community push Steinberg hard enough, they actually fix issues.
It’s not perfect that we pay for imperfect tools, I know. But this is the reality for many professionals, also in other fields - graphics, 3D, video editing, etc. Their software has bugs too, it’s constantly fixed, updated and tweaked to users’ needs. It’s a living organism, not a finished thing. You can and are welcome to try improve Cubase, as we all do.
I do report bugs and mention them constantly only to see there’s already a forum post from 3 years ago reporting the same thing. The thing that upsets me the most is not so much the bugs themselves, I do a little coding, I know how hard it is to get the simplest thing to run smoothly. My main issue is that some things would be in theory SO easy to fix. For example, why no pre-fader metering ? Is that completely impossible to implement ? And yet it’s quite important when setting up levels for going to outboard or before hitting non-linear plugins. How many years did it take to get Folders with Audio Groups ? Or to have External Effects inserts stop hi-jacking the hardware input it uses making it unusable for anything else ? When are they going to change the side-chain routing system ? I could go on and on.
If you look at my post history, it’s primarily bug reports, feature requests, and some complaints. But they are very specific and detailed, not abstract… and so like others, I didn’t really understand the point of your post.
Having been a user since SX3, my use of Cubase started in very typical DAW user kind of way in which I could have used any DAW… basic recording.. basic MIDI, etc, but for the past 10-15 years I dug deep into Cubase filling out all the presets in all the places you can have presets (there are many), binding and learning all the key commands, developing my own workflow system with Project/Logical editor creating over 2000 presets (now I’m going to create a touchscreen interface for them), creating 100 different Workspace presets, etc, etc.
There isn’t another DAW I could use, It would be a major step backwards in my workflow and creative proficiency, and studio operation. It’s not even close. Maybe I could write custom code for REAPER… but there’s no need to.
You haven’t really explained anything… Theoretically having some criticisms from the perception of a newcomer could be valuable - but you haven’t really gone into any detail… And so your position just comes across as an amateur user who probably shouldn’t be the one to sell Cubase to someone.
In basic use, just about any DAW could replace another… But It’s the details over x amount of time that make a difference.
I will go into details and I have gone into details in the past. I have called Steinberg many times to recreate and report bugs in real time. I have made posts here that have been redundant. I mean do we still need to ask to be able to re-order input and output channels in Audio Connection ? How many times have we asked for that ?But I will ask again. The point of my post, that some of you don’t get, is just venting. It’s leaving a trace that says : I tried to sell Cubase to a new comer and every question he asked me about things that were working I had to reply with a weird circumvoluted answer. And when he asked : “Why doesn’t it just do this ?” I had no answer and I start wondering mlyself “Yeah, why doesn’t it do any of those things properly ?”
I don’t think you should include "we" because you do not represent me or others who have never asked for that. We all have different priorities regarding what needs to be addressed.
Seems like someone else recently assumed this “we” thing too?
Steinberg is a business to make a profit and sell a DAW to many different user groups at a competitive price point. They do prioritize issues, and note the FR’s. I’m pretty sure they also have a grasp on the cost associated to fix confirmed bugs and add features…even those easy bugs that you mention. Keep in mind some seemingly simple issues are not easy to fix in Cubase.
Do you know the inner workings of Steinberg? Could some of the issues you have mentioned be on a hold status to be integrated with an up-coming feature you never thought about? Or maybe they don’t feel the cost benefit of re-ordering is worth it for them?
The only solution I see is internal and outsourcing more people to code, and selling Cubase for $3,000 with $500 annual upgrades. That’s not going to happen because this is a prosumer market and those who would pay for an expensive DAW are not in the drivers seat.
Yes. Maybe create work-arounds if possible, and document the bugs. Ultimately the happy users just do it. They use what’s available and make the best of it. No matter what era, I think it’s always been that way.
If that isn’t possible, vote with your wallet and tell your friend to avoid Cubase.
Cubase is like a NASA control panel. If you can’t do what you want in it then it’s really about you and not the software. People made amazing music with 2 and 4 track tape recorders. The only limits today are computer power and your imagination.
That’s an area of Cubase, I’m pretty certain, most people set and forget… at least until they do some studio upgrades if they ever do.
Again, you’ve mentioned something you see as a deficiency worth mentioning, but you haven’t given a reason why, what the use case is, etc.
Usually inputs/outputs correlate to AD/DA inputs/outputs and in my case, I’ve renamed inputs to also correlate with mic-preamps… At the moment, apart from main outputs, I use External FX for outboard sends and then the External FX I have loaded onto Group Channels in my project templates I use for printing, rather than having them as inserts on the actual source channel (just a personal preference).
tbh, I don’t recall seeing your user name before this thread… So I’m not sure what level of participation you have, but certainly, maybe it’s how you post that results in a lack of response to your needs or at least have other users understand and chime in with support for your ideas which would further propagate them to development.
But overall I agree with @Greg_Purkey , personally, there isn’t anything you’ve pointed out that jumps out at me as a dire need… Perhaps something like re-order inputs/outputs I would have agreed with as being important 15 years ago, but have since adapted above and beyond that need with how I operate my productions and studio.
I could do it every day because after I set everything, next time the order is changed anyway, for some unknown reason.
Usually it’s changing order from input 1,2,3,4 to 3,4,1,2. If I could reorder, it would be a very fast fix. But now, the only option is to redo everything, over and over and over again.
not flaming, genuinely curious. I feel like this is something I would have done early on in my engineering life until I realized one day I’m just creating more work for myself… And then devised a better system outside of the DAW, and thus, improving my system in the DAW.
In my project templates, I have a recording folder - ‘Recording Tracks 1-32’, with all the tracks assigned inputs corresponding to the AD/DA order, and tracks named M-in01_MicPreName+#
If I need to do any re-ordering during tracking, I just do it there.
I like my input order in Cubase to match my hardware mixer. I like order! I’m autistic (apparently), so that might be the main reason this annoys me so much I don’t like it when software randomly changes something I’ve set up. I consider that a bug.
For now, I’m living with it. It’s not the end of the world, and I’m not going to redo it like an idiot knowing I’ll just have to do it again the next day But you asked for an example, so I gave you one.
In my template project, I have the order set up based on instrument priority. That changes later during production, though, because I never know which synth will end up being the bass, lead, or pad.
Please don’t get me wrong, but why don’t you use another DAW? Clearly, Cubase doesn’t suit your needs. From what I understand, you have invested in this software, but it does not seem to suit your requirements.
I don’t work with hardware; therefore, I don’t have the issues you are facing. In contrast, other than the odd bug, I am thrilled with the software.
Perhaps it’s just not for you; another DAW may be the answer?
From one spectrumy person to another - it may very well be misdirected OCD…
But Cubase shouldn’t randomly be changing something you’ve set up should it? Unless you’re talking about the project trying to load Inputs/Outputs that don’t exist anymore or something?
But I still think that comes down to unintended/“improper” use by the user. Think of it like your hardware mixer - if your hardware mixer were modular channel strips - you don’t take out channel strip 1 and swap it with channel 6… You simply change what is plugged into what input.
The Inputs/Outputs are meant to correspond with fixed studio equipment. AD/DA Channels, Mixer channels/etc.
I do understand your conundrum though, as myself, having different 500 series preamps, sometimes I want/need bass on a pre-amp that isn’t in a sensical place channel # wise…
… But that’s why I have a ‘Recording Tracks 1-32’ folder all neatly named and organized, and I just do addendums to the track naming for that particular session..
M-in13_SSLVHD(a) becomes M-in13_SSLVHD(a)_Bass and if the kick drum ins CH1, I just re-order the recording tracks if I want bass and kick drum next to each other.
Speaking of spectrumy, I created an LE script that removes all the M-In_Preamp+# predendums when it’s time for that.
No need to mess with Input/Output order at all. I have printed paper for Input list as well for more complicated client recording sessions when I’m back and forth from the live room to control room setting up the session.
I don’t recall Dom ever saying anything is wrong with Cubase when Steinberg comes out with a new release. He’s just all bouncy and bubbly about how great it is. Even when it’s broken enough to require an urgent hot fix - he tends to not even mention those negative things in his vids.
Even when he mentions working with a feature that has a lot of problems (VCAs, as an example) he doesn’t mention them, or the workarounds.
Oh if it was real OCD then I would quit using Cubase It’s just a minor annoyance, nothing more.
I really doubt that is user error. I setup from scratch each channel in Audio Connections window, starting from first to last. Saving it as a preset. Next day the order is changed (stereo 3/4 then mono 1,2,5,6, another stereo 7/8…) When I reload the preset, order is also changed.
For some reason, Cubase always is switching the order of the first few channels. My guess is that this is one of those bugs where something is messed up with config files and only full cleaning of all Cubase files and fresh install would fix it. But this is the last thing I wanna do because everything else is fine. The last thing I need is to fix this minor issue and get something major on the way
Hm, interesting. I do have some Output presets for more complicated Output reconfigurations at one point and I dont recall this problem of Cubase re-ordering things.
Was this a more recent bug, since what version did you start using Cubase/encountering this? Did you email tech support?
Sounds like a lot of unnecessary work to me.
In the context of having mono and stereo inputs… I just created both Mono and Stereo inputs for all channels. By default, I’m always using only Mono, but the stereos are there and already exist if I need them.
There’s two user aspects we are dealing with. There are individual users here of which everyone has their own quirky setup and way of doing things - hobbyist or prosumer… There are no rules… And then there are industry professionals who are part of that community and while they to will say, “there are no rules”, there is also definitely shared common knowledge, techniques, ethics, etc… ie, no one is going to be content with you re-ordering/labeling Cubase Inputs/Outputs when it’s not needed. Like If I hired you as a Cubase assistant, and you were doing that… I would be like… Ummm… Clock is ticking…
But obviously Steinberg needs to balance these aspects… To try and create a DAW that placates every individual users quirky needs/setups probably isn’t sustainable. There needs to be some level of commonality in use and understanding of how to do things.
i’m super happy for you that you got your inputs in order. Again, my post was in the context of trying to get a friend of mine interested in Cubase. And we asked “How do I re-order the inputs and outputs ?” I had to tell him “you can’t…”
Once again, it’s not because other DAW’s are worse (they are…) that I’m not allowed to criticize the one I’m using. Most critics I have about Cubase is BECAUSE I use it so much. And having to face the exact same issues over and over and OVER again once in a while just gets under my skin. Is that ok ?
Hard to tell. It’s happening on Mac Sequoia since at least two years. I’m pretty sure that it was dine earlier but I’m not sure. I didn’t had this issue on Windows with previous, totally different setup.
Actually I have less work than you, because I don’t change my setup. Once everything is plugged to the mixer, it’s there for a very long time. I’m not recording bands. I have “hardwired” production studio full of synths, drum machines etc.
Who said anything about unnecessary reordering Cubase Inputs/Outputs? Just because it’s not your workflow, it doesn’t mean that nobody should have ability to do it and that it’s unnecessary just because you think it is.
Cubase already allows for tons of modularity in the interface. Ability to drag and drop with mouse inputs with another window is not that difficult to do for them. It’s just extremely low in the priority/pipeline.
because after I set everything, next time the order is changed anyway, for some unknown reason.
I don’t like it when software randomly changes something I’ve set up. I consider that a bug.
But you asked for an example, so I gave you one.
It’s just a minor annoyance, nothing more.