I did not, but I fully support the person who did it.
It’s not what you say, it’s how you say it.
Fredo
The decision where to exhibit is fully on Yamaha as they are distributing Nuendo and Nuage.
Hello Timo, old Hanseat… 
Is there a slight possibility that the guys in charge at your place are not exactly putting pressure
on Yamaha to run more promotion for Nuendo, in what way ever?
If you dont watch out you might end up as OS developement section for Yamaha “NewAge” consoles.
Big K
It’s just one of those incidental galactic alignments that happen, all the time. You know, where when “how they say it” is also when they’re highly critical of you guys and Steinberg. I’m sure it’s pure coincidence though.
I would have thought it would have fallen under the marketing department.
No it’s not. This is just ONE example where things going totally different than outsiders would assume.
So you tell them the users of Nuendo think it would be a good idea to market the product at key industry events then?
Then freaken fight for it man? its your job too
sorry not “polite” enough for some people start again
Then request it in a strong yet polite diplomatic way. Say “hey Yamaha I’ve been given the role of market manager and this is where we should be spending our marketing budget.”
Yamaha might own Steinberg and I can understand why Yamaha might think Prosound and Light is where they need to be because thats all they know they sell PA gear and happen to own Steinberg. Timo you are the marketing manager of a post product product, Yamaha clearly have no idea about Post Production marketing. Tell them where the industry is!!! Gearslutz Post forum would be a good cheap start. SoundonSound article + ad. NAB not cheap but no brainer.
I agree with the whole premise of this thread as someone who’s been on board since version 1.0
I will just throw in a little point in Steinberg’s defense here; Having worked in Japan, the Japanese have a ‘different’ shall we say way of doing things. In my experience they’re unbelievably inflexible in business, if they say it’s like this, then there’s no negotiating, good or bad it’s like this.
There’s no point in getting emotional or angry or ‘fighting for your job’ it just makes no difference,none whatsoever…I’ve been there. This is an example where cultural differences really do need to be taken into account.
Reading between the lines I feel the guys in Germany are up against this from above and feel as frustrated as us.
MC
Hi Timo - a curiosity question if I may:
Do Steinberg/Yamaha understand why we say that Nuendo just doesn’t have the presence here that it might appear on paper?
While we customers don’t know Steinberg’s strategies, marketing, or plans (and can’t advise you on how to run your business), likewise living and working here in the US for years also provides a significantly different perspective from what you may be hearing and seeing from client interaction, local reps, marketing experiences, and industry or sales reports.
Unfortunately Nuendo is considered “dead” by many in the industry here, or at the very least “not an option”. I am not referring to a few forum posts, but people I know and work with in the LA post scene (and other markets around the US). For many here, there is no option - work in ProTools, or don’t work at all - unless some competitor invests in convincing the industry otherwise with extensive marketing and support for the industry in general.
This is pretty much what I think users have been asking for - help support the customer base with more exposure for the product. It is a risk to choose Nuendo over ProTools for most people here, and with little attention and advertising given to the product in our industry, the risk continues to grow.
I am fortunate that I am not expected to use a specific DAW for my work (most of the time), but the LA post market is 100% tied to ProTools. If you want to work in post, you work in ProTools. The few that use Nuendo are somewhat independent of the market, and that is rare - the exception, not the norm.
The few Nuendo users I know of here aren’t working directly in feature post editing or mixing. All are in other areas of the industry, whether scoring, sound design, advertising, or general studio work.
Are we US users on our own here and just not relevant to Steinberg or Yamaha’s goals for Nuendo? Is Nuendo promoted for Europe and Asia mainly now? Or is this “just the way it is”?
Does Yamaha taking over distribution of Nuendo impact how it is marketed in different parts of the world?
Some I’ve talked to perceive this as a focus on Nuendo Live as technology for their live sound market, and a potential dead end for Nuendo as a music and post application.
(I’ve attempted to ask questions you might be able to answer to some degree as I know some things simply can’t be stated publicly for obvious business and confidentiality reasons).
In Spain is the same that you described. Pro Tools is the absolute standard and there is NO promotion but web reviews. Some people knows it and ignores it.
I’m here to say that Nuendo is considered “alive” by myself and many in the industry here in Los Angeles.
I have my backup PT setup. And I haven’t had to use it in 5 years. I exchange work with people on PT on an almost daily basis, under a variety of post circumstances, and we have found ways of making it painless. There’s always room for improvement (the present aaf conversation, for example), but I personally haven’t had a real transfer problem in years.
When you talk about the LA industry being 100% PT, you may be talking about your particular section of it–but then again, you’re not, as you say you don’t have to use a “house” system. Freedom to use the software of your choice obviously depends on what aspect of post you’re talking about, what sub genre of production you’re talking about. I have plenty of friends right here in town doing plenty of things that you’ve seen all over the place that were posted/dialog edited/mixed/you-name-it on Nuendo. And we haven’t even talked about music production here! My favorite Austin studios are Nuendo-only. Nuendo’s common in Nashville. It’s plenty popular here in LA as a composing/mixing platform.
I understand what you’re getting at… but…
There are any number of issues with the Nuendo/SB/End User triangle that I would like to see change; the biggest is responsiveness to actual SOFTWARE issues-- and I think Timo and the crew have done a pretty good job of starting to make that happen here on the forum.
I do not presume to understand the dynamic between SB and Yamaha, or what the department titles mean across corporations and continents. I’d be concerned if Nuendo was in danger of dying. I don’t care if Todd/AO, or Margarita Mix uses it. Why would they switch? What they have works for them. Nuendo’s been around, and any real pro has at least some awareness of it.
Ok… after all that-- if I did care, and were in a position to advise anyone about developing marketshare, I’d suggest attacking from the academic end. In my experience, in both music and business, if you get’em young, you’ve got’em for life. Are there Nuendo classes at Full Sail, where so many of the young engineers these days are coming from? Musician’s Institute? Other scholastic contributors to our over-stocked professional pond?
And with that… geez… I better get back to work! 
Chewy
Features and TV on the larger stages mainly. I knew Nashville was more of a Nuendo town, but that’s Nashville - there are (or were when I was there) Radar studios, tape rooms, etc - easier to pick your tool for music than film/TV. I knew some Paris rooms when I was there, but no doubt they’ve moved to something else by now.
I also said “considered dead by many” - that’s their opinion based on how much they see Nuendo (zero), not a statement of fact per se. I can’t say I’ve seen a Nuendo ad anywhere in quite a while.
The only point is that even that perception signifies a lack of visible presence. It may be slowly increasing, but how long will word-of-mouth osmosis take? Avid (PT/Digi) wouldn’t be where it is today by word of mouth alone.
Even so, I do agree the larger stages aren’t going to switch. There is no reason for them to. So perhaps marketing Nuendo is a very longterm and difficult process for Steinberg/Yamaha - getting into Full Sail, MI, etc is a good idea, and Yamaha does seem to be working their way into the edu market already. Tough market now though. The days of being the first to the table (ProTools) are over.
I can’t say I envy having to market a product in an over-saturated, highly competitive market with little chance for success… oh wait, sorry, that’s our side of the industry, lol.
I guess I was responding to the 100% comment. In any case, I do understand where you’re coming from, and it would be either naive or cosmically unrealistic of me to suggest that this isn’t primarily a PT town. But my point is that realistic options exist for those who wish to take advantage of them. And that neither word of mouth nor advertising nor a combination of the two would likely be sufficient to get the industry to change on the mega-level. There would have to be a very real practical advantage to re-tooling. And as much better than PT as Nuendo may be in many ways, in many of our opinions, the difference is not significant enough to tip the scales.
If I were in the freelance audio-editing pool for production companies out here I’d be on PT, no doubt. But I’m not… and there are lots of us out here who are not. The big stages do not determine what we can and can’t use; if I’m going over to Todd/AO or one of the SM places I bring an OMF. It just works. And the number of editing seats those places (and that includes TV-related post houses) represent in the greater professional pool is tiny compared to the rest of us out there.
I figure it’s only a problem… if it’s a problem. Early in Nuendo’s lifetime working between platforms was frequently troublesome. In my experience these days, it’s a matter of choice, period. It pays to be aware of the options. I try to avoid the ads, personally. For myself and most of my pro pals, they don’t mean much. The professional forums and virtual professional community pretty much ensure that if you are at all interested, you’re going to find what you need to know.
OK! Now I’m really going to get back to work. I’m sorry to say what we’re talking about now is much more interesting than what I’m working on right now. But… I have more SSDs to buy…
Chewy
I see what you are saying, and completely agree. There are a lot more users than just the handful of post seats at ToddAO, Warner, etc.
The problem I’ve seen over the years, for whatever it may be worth, is that I’m not sure the marketing of Nuendo has agreed with us over the past few years - it seems targeted at a market, whether high end or just too generically “post”, that isn’t going to budge anytime soon, while most of us are somewhere on the periphery - scoring, sound design, advertising, etc where OMFs and AAFs are usually all we need to support/provide.
At least I know I’m not the only one procrastinating from doing what needs to be done today, lol.
You’re fired.
Now, please do me the professional courtesy of returning the favor…
Chewy
Hello,
thanks for your comments and perspectives. As I won’t open the discussion on Yamahas/US-Steinberg’s strategy on how Nuendo is being promoted in future in the relevant markets, I’d like to add another perspective.
When talking about studio presence of a specific software such as Nuendo or Pro Tools, it is very often referred to large mixing stages, such at ToddAO or Skywalker. Nuendo is quite often used as editing and sound-design tool for post-pro work. However, this seems to be not “appealing” and nobody will take pictures of an editing rig. Indeed many well-known movies of the past years have been produced under usage of a Nuendo system (within the production chain). Sometimes a mobile Nuendo rig is brought into the mixing rooms and connected to given infrastructure, at Sony for instance (I believe it was the Rita Hayworth stage when I remember right).
Thanks,
Timo
Hi Timo - thank you for replying here.
It would seem we are all pretty much acknowledging that Nuendo is used for a wide range of uses, even if not on large dub stages.
I think the confusion a lot of people have had over the years has derived from Nuendo’s primary marketing as a Post application.
When someone markets to “Post” from a DAW marketing perspective here in the US, it is assumed they are referring to large studio feature film post. While not technically correct, that’s just the way market perception works here.
But there is a much bigger market than that. One that is working with and outside of LA/feature film, and that seems to be largely ignored as a specific target by any product beyond the general music market. “Post” of course encompasses editing, sound design, and even scoring - not just for film, but any visual medium - advertising, corporate, animation, etc. That is a much broader market than features, and has a decent, if not strong, presence in most good sized US cities.
Why not simply appeal to that secondary market that is using Nuendo - sound designers, composers, broadcast advertising production work (voice, music, production), and editing (where PT isn’t required)?
Nuendo is perceived as more of an all-in-one application, not really just for post, and I personally think that is it’s greatest strength. It blurs the lines between music production and film/TV/broadcast easier in some cases than ProTools (PT11 might change that a bit with 64-bit and offline bounces, so time is short to make that distinction).
Perhaps you could utilize more of the people here who work in these previously mentioned areas to creative some extra marketing material, such as a client and project “credit” list, and perhaps some tips, tutorials or user-experience stories from some of us working in these other areas so other similar studios might see the advantage of moving to Nuendo. The Artists section on your website seems mostly geared towards Cubase. Perhaps add one for Nuendo’s credits in a wide range of markests. You might not get as many “name” producers, composers or studios with this idea, but I think the represented client and project list could be impressive enough to garner it’s own tab on the website.
Adding ad-promo production credits for Fortune 50 (mega) companies to the Nuendo client list might not hurt; sound design credits for features and advertising; editing credits (doesn’t matter if XYZ blockbuster wasn’t mixed in Nuendo). It may not be as glamorous, but it might be very effective in building a broader base perception. Maybe in this case, a long list would better make the point that Nuendo is being used widely, than a few “star” interviews and bios that might have a hard time competing with “The Hobbit” (ProTools 11 launch)?
Of course people want to see Joe Superstar pitching a product, but since Nuendo isn’t the main choice at any large post facility in LA, why not go “grass roots” here and promote it to, and by the people in these many other areas of production work? Perhaps this would work for other countries as well? At least for now.
Maybe even make that the focus of some print ads to steer people away from the “it has to be in ToddAO” perception. The way I see it from experience and conversations, those are the markets that are actually considering Nuendo, not the ToddAOs, Paramounts, or Warners of the industry.
This could even serve two purposes - marketing Nuendo, and providing a little more technical prominence for those areas of the industry that are largely overshadowed by the studio feature film sector. Instead of aiming for the stars, shoot for the moon. People have landed there already and even though we have mostly forgotten about that, we see it every single day.
Just throwing out some ideas. It isn’t my place to tell Steinberg how to market, and that isn’t my area of expertise. But Nuendo is a great application, and I think we all want to see it succeed where it can.
Now I must get back to work before Chewy fires me again.
You are all fired… Get to work !!
A more simple and quite recent example for the lack of advertising and promotion:
A few days ago I received the lates quarterly catalogue of one of the largest, leading music stores in Germany.
This 500 pages of music products and software lands on the desk of a huge number of studio owners and
musicians. In there you see them all: Ablet., Preson Stu1, FruLoo, Sonar, Samplit…
Of course SB was featured, too, but only with versions of Cubase, Wavelab & Absolut Coll.
Nowhere a sign or note about Nuendo. It has been like that for several years.
Why is that? Of course, SB can’t tell this company what to put in their catalogues, but with
just a little effort and friendly relationship, this should not be a problem to be accomplished.
SB has not yet used all resources, yet… Not even free ones… and I don’t think they have quite grasped
the essentiality of promotion and ads, … also for us users…
Big K
I totally agree with you CSD…
Nuendo is used on many post pro “sub markets”…
Sound for games (UBISOFT), yearly contract for french TV (providing speaks for a daily show), corporate films for national size entities, theatre sound design are the markets I’ve gained those last few years all using Nuendo as my main daw.
Protools is used mostly to check my OMF before delivery.
There’s a new Nuendo facility doing film mixing only 300 meters from my studio. The engineers all swear by Nuendo.
I don’t know if Steinberg even knows about their user base…
There are surely more small & unknown facilities and users than big names using Nuendo.
Nothing spectacular, but it’s the foundation that holds the house.