I'm not going for Pro Tools, but...

It’s funny I’ve come across this posting. I have been debating this decision the past few days myself. Except slightly different. I’m certainly familiar with PT, all the way back to the Nubus Mac days when it was just 4 tracks! And PT10 certainly seems to be what PT users have asked for for quite a while. But, what was a complete game changer for me was MOTU Digital Performer.

I was a MOTU DP user for a while, and loved it. But I stopped using it, because I no longer used a Mac for my music some years ago. I eventually moved to Nuendo 3, and then Cubase 5 now. But, MOTU DP8 now will run on Windows 7, and supports VSTs. I’m seriosuly considering going back to DP8 when it’s released in the spring of 2012.

I actually like both PT and DP, but if it comes to film scoring, which I do, I would feel more confident with DP. It’s midi capabilties are second to none IMO. And besides, PT never seemed to give you much power with RTAS plug-ins, which is essential for Orchestral Libraries being stacked to the max in a dense sequence.

Curious for those that have made the PT10 plunge. How strong are the midi sequencing capabilities now? Do you feel it can hold it’s own with Cubase midi?

I started with Sound Tools, back in the day, and kept PT around through v8, for transfer purposes.

Started with Cubase VST in, like, '96? Made the switch to Nuendo when the SX thing happened. Due to the omnivorous nature of my working life, I’ve had to be reasonably facile with all of the main players, with an emphasis on DP.

Nuendo’s still the one I like the most. And I’m not on 5… though I’m looking forward to 6, I think. All of them have their various strengths and weaknesses. There are aspects of DP I wish Nuendo would adopt… and when I’m working in DP I curse it loudly and regularly for the things it doesn’t do that Nuendo does. And the things DP does that Nuendo doesn’t, for that matter (I’ve never had a corrupted project in N4; too many to count in DP).

Pro Tools is fine, if you like it. But it is not finer than Nuendo, in my opinion and experience. And though I have major issues with its transfer issues (we all know it can be finicky and there are caveats with OMF and, I guess AAF–Steinberg support should really pick up the ball on that one; if they’re not going to fix it, provide official guidelines on how to make a successful feature-worthy OMF to be read for the PT soundstage [yeah, after being bitten many times I finally figured it out myself, but it should not have been a song and dance-- the BWF/OMF issue] ), in the long run my migration from PT to SB has been a very satisfying one, and I have no regrets.

Chewy

Depends on what you need. PT still lacks some of Cubase’s midi processing, but makes up for it with a faster workflow, Sibelius integration, import session data and super fast track setup options, video that always imports correctly in sync, and destructive record for punching stem or mix edits.

VEPro and hard wired slaves solve the VI performance issue. I am looking at DP as an option for more advanced midi and film scoring features, but I’m not yet convinced it will be faster than PT.

Thanks for participate, everybody!

Is generally Nuendo/Cubase an European thing, and Pro Tools the one chosen in the US?

It would be interesting to study a list showing the most successful producers, engineers, musicians etc. and their choice of daw… I know it would not give THE ANSWER for others to choose, but, you know… :slight_smile:

I think you’ll find Pro tools ahead in that one on all counts, in the same way Mac’s will be, not because they’re ‘better’ but historically they got in there first with a working product. It’s like anything if you learn on a specific platform/software people tend to stick to what they know.

MC

Can’t speak for Cubase, but Nuendo is a rarity in the US. I know exactly one engineer in NYC who runs Nuendo, but it’s in his home studio. EVERY studio I’ve been in and every other engineer I’ve met runs PT. These are mix-engineers, recording engineers, engineers in post-production etc. Not necessarily music-“producers”. They use Logic and probably Cubase, along with PT. But yeah, PT is king in the US.

I’d rather not see it… :wink:

Actually I think it’s interesting that you brought up Apple computers, because I actually think that what has given it the lead in our industry is easy of use and superior marketing and branding. I think Steinberg lacks tremendously in the latter area, which is why the comparison is interesting…

I think I must disagree, although Apple has indeed played an prominent role …
What brought PT on the map is the fact that -at that time- it was the only alternative for 2inch and DASH equipped SSL/Neve/Api studio’s, which became too expensive for the market. Most of the industry switched within a very short period of time to the only alternative, thereby becoming the new industry standard.

Fredo

And of course Pro Tools was Mac only…

DG

We actually don’t disagree with each other. I might have been unclear: I was talking specifically about the Mac computers and their rise to dominance in our industry, not Pro Tools. Sorry if that was fuzzy.

I guess that depends on how and with whom you work. I’ve been involvedwith (and continue to work with) facilities in Austin, Nashville, Washington DC and Los Angeles that use Nuendo, if not exclusively, then at least preferentially. In post, in movie composition, in general music recording and otherwise.

I work fairly regularly with two well-respected Nuendo-based music/production studios here in Santa Monica.

Then again, there are big facilities that don’t know anything about it at all. But it’s not a rarity in my experience.

Chewy

I bet if we went out and did a survey in pro-studios in the US Nuendo would indeed have a very small share of the market. That was my point. There isn’t a studio in New York that I’m aware of that asks for Nuendo engineers and pays the money I need to survive here. Of course you can find places in the US where it’s used, I’m just saying there ain’t many.

And I did make an exception for people doing music, which seemed logical since Nuendo is a post-centric application supposedly…

I was simply responding to the “rarity” assertion, not statistics or marketshare. I’ve never had trouble finding Nuendo in the workplace when I wanted to use it out of town. And, keeping it real, you didn’t originally make an exception for people doing music; recording engineers do that. You excepted “music ‘producers’”, a category vague and broad enough to mean just about anything :wink:

The fact of PT’s prevalence is a given, obviously. That’s not news. If I’m contributing any kind of point here at all (and maybe I am just being pointless), it’s that for some it may be important to have it in the mix room, or in the audio suite… and for plenty, if not a predominant comparative majority of others it’s not such a big deal. A matter of how and with whom you work.

Chewy

You are very right:
my customers, commercial or music bands…, they come to me because they want that sound, that recording, that mix, that mastering,…simply , the job done how I do it, irrespectively if I’d still work with my 3324S, an anlog console or a DAW like I do today. Many don’t even know about Alsihad, illogic or Nuendo. They come to a studio for their work to be done as good as it gets. The customers from the audio industry are well aware of DAW brands, but as long as there is no compatibility issue they can be quickly convinced by the quality of work that it is not important what you work with, but that you can get everything done they need, fast and efficiently.

Servus, Big K

Fine BigK, but that doesn’t change that Nuendo is a small dot on the US DAW landscape compared to PT.

Also, this isn’t about convincing the customers of studios to use Nuendo, it’s about convincing studios to use Nuendo, and they are very aware of PT and the problems that follow from not using it. I’m talking about easy access to skilled engineers, tech’s and engineers to service the equipment, compatibility with other softwares, and a known “reputable” big company to work with should problems arise.

Maybe, …I would not know and, quite frankly … .

It is not my task to convince other engineers or studios to use
Nuendo, although, I have converted a hand full of colleagues, already.

I don’t have most of the problems mentioned in this forum nor do I get help calls from other local
Tonmeister or Nuendo-using engineers. Compatibility can always be improved, but is on an o.k. level
for me, a.t.m. Obviously, it doesn’t run everywhere as smooth as it does here…

Laptop & Lederhosen … Bavaria rules …
:wink:

A lot of it has to do with perception. Avid is a big deal in the US and it’s perceived as the pro company. You’ve got a problem? You know what you’re dealing with. With SB people just don’t know. And it’s not that one would need 24/7 tech support for Nuendo, not at all - as a matter of fact I’ve had some serious issues with PT in more than one studio in NYC - it’s just that if something does go to hell there’s a gazillion engineers in NYC you can call who know PT. Nuendo? Like I said, I know one personally. And he’s not in post.

As for compatibility; I’m not bringing that up to blame any side, it’s quite frankly not interesting or productive to do. But the fact that one has to interface with PT, Avid MC and FCP means it has to be “flawless”. There’s no time to mess around in today’s market. Everyone wants everything yesterday for no money.

I quite like Nuendo, and as I said in a different thread; the new features in PT made me smile because so many of them were in Nuendo for such a long time. I have cautious optimism for the next update and v6 to be quite good, but I just feel very disappointed in the lack of response the company itself is showing.

However I think we certainly can agree that:

… perhaps substitute the laptop for some German brew though…

LOL… !!

It is very possible that I ( and I fear quite a few more ) have got used to the, let’s say, restrained way SB reacts, or better not reacts, to some input and requests. It is certainly no loudmouth company like …well …
In more than a dozen posts I have been complaining about the lack of presence and asked for somewhat more agressive marketing and buzz. Somehow, it is not happening, although, it would be ever so necessary and a huge boost for us and their own business. I could understand that, if they’d produce a HiEnd mechanical gadget in limited numbers in a small workshop with a few old mechanics doing all the work, but with Software?
If you have an idea for a good Wake-Up call… let me know…

Moin, Moin…
Big K

Just a status update…

I ordered Pro Tools 10 yesterday.
Time will show if that’s the only daw I will end up with, in combination with Nuendo or Nuendo only.