I use occasionally use SketchUp for woodworking projects, and every time I start a new project it’s like I’m a complete beginner again and have to go back through the basic tutorials. The projects (and time to do them) come around too infrequently so I usually have completely forgotten how to do most anything in it by the time I try. Currently attempting to design a turntable stand with vinyl storage and mostly just feel like an idiot when using that software.
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LOL What> Not using FORTRAN? LOL
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In my opinion this is turning out to be an important thread to do with what one should be able to expect from a pro application.
Has anyone building a pro app ever completely cracked it? Is there a pro app which by the way it is designed leads the user to both maintain their memory of how the app works - and when they have not - helps them by the way the app is designed to restore what has been forgotten? I cannot think of one but if I had to pick a winner - and I have looked at many different kinds of pro apps - it would have to be Dorico. It’s easy to overlook how much Dorico’s developers have done to simplify life for the user as we identify things that are left to do.
Studio One is also at a very high standard in this respect.
Why is Dorico better than most? Because of the desire of its development team to help users. Where there is a will there is a way. The Dorico team are unusually close to the users - listening to them. Seeking to understand them.
Can we agree that a professional who has been ill for a year and returns to work should not be starting from scratch with a pro application?
In the area of usability Dorico team has at particular times not only met my expectations but surprised me. Three recent examples of when my expectations were outdone were:
- Library manager - I didn’t expect that the team would be ambitious enough to ensure that engraving control - engraving power - would be passed around between files - this ensuring that the massive engraving power of the app ends up being of greatest benefit to the user for minimal effort. Of course it was necessary that this happen - but I didn’t expect it to be delivered. Outstanding.
- Smart MIDI import - look at other music apps - you just expect that this kind of a task will be a perpetual misery - but the Dorico team identified the key reasons why MIDI import was a problem for the notation user - and did something about it. Again - amazing.
- The Library menu. Bringing together key areas of functionality into a single menu - not as significant as the features I just mentioned - but an example of organising power so that it is available to the user who isn’t constantly using the app.
And examples from the past which have thrilled me are the distinction between parts and instruments - the way in which music is not locked to bars - and entry onto multiple staves at the same time.
Another example of outstanding usability is the way in which the engrave dialogs have real life examples next to each option. I just expect that app developers will be too little user focused to provide this - but the Dorico team designed the dialogs so that one is reminded what options do as one works with the app.
The fact that the Dorico team has delivered in the ways above shows that they understand the need to not just provide power but also - equally - to organise that power so that it ends up being helpful to the user.
Some of the suggestions that I have made on this forum in the past and now relate to ensuring that the user is able to have power without having to constantly return to the manual to remember what options exist. For example I have suggested that instead of real and step entry being different worlds - with options necessary to use them distributed across the app I suggested that all options related to the entry of music be grouped into a single dialog with a series of tabs (Metronome, Rhythm, Pitch, Symbols, Recording) - the user thereby being reminded of all available entry options when using the app - and also so additional options for entry which exist somewhere between step and real time entry could be added without making the app more complex to use.
Those who brought up 3D apps were right to do so - they illustrate perfectly the problems which developers must solve. Blender is a revolution in terms of accessibility from a financial perspective but isn’t even close to being an app which works in a manner where time invested offers an appropriate return. I hate that app - one can spend a day and have so little to show for it. One suspects that the developers are some of the most technically brilliant in the world - and yet sadly brilliance which comes without an understanding of how users operate is unlikely to ultimately help the user.
So - to the original poster - why not mention key words - key concepts in the app which you find difficult to relate to - difficult to store in your mind? For example is it Score setup? Instruments? Parts? Flows? Layouts? Entry? Engraving? Playback?
There is only one concept in Dorico which I believe is inherently complex - which cannot be made easier to grasp - except perhaps by making a real life comparison - the relationship of instruments/parts to layouts and layouts to instruments/parts. Consider a school organising a timetable of classes with students (an extremely complicated thing to do!). There are many students for each class but also many classes for each student. This complexity is unavoidable. Dorico has this same problem - it must provide an interface where it is clear that an instrument is used on many layouts while at the same time a layout can use many instruments. The way that the app has pull out sections at top, bottom, left and right that can allow these relationships to be represented visually is as effective way as I can think of for how to help the user to understand.
PS I remember buying Finale 3 and reading those two monster manuals which came in a pull out box from cover to cover. If you so much as tripped over something on the footpath/sidewalk half of what you learned would fall out of your head.
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Of course, FORTRAN IV and to make the list complete… IBM Mainframe Assembler 
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Let’s put in a shout for machine code
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And don’t forget the Abacus. 
But seriously, the object model used in programming today is probably the main reason we even have apps like Dorico being so well designed and written, would you agree? I marvel at how software science has advanced in the past 25 years.
I never did master the abacus
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If only it was designed to be intuitive.
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Jesper
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Whats 3D I only have 1 eye
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Some folks here are comparing Dorico to so-called three-dimensional animation software to illustrate the inherent complexity of sophisticated professional software packages.
And welcome to the forum, Stephen.
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Thanks glad to be here.
Steve
I would like to ask if you have seen such statistics from other companies.
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Every software has its strengths and its weaknesses. It would be better to write concrete details which you have as problems when using Dorico.
If one has problems using Dorico, they should experience various software to find the best software for themself. Still, sometimes a user should use different software according to the character of the work.
Before using Dorico, I had intensively used Finale, but I had sometimes used other notation software programs such as Sibelius, Encore, Noteworthy Composer, Cappella, Lilypond Bach Project, MaxScore etc. Even though I have been requesting many features in this forum, Dorico is, at least for me, the most valuable, musician-friendly, and intuitive in working fundamental musical processes, among others.
Onboarding to Sibelius is fairly easy because it behaves more intuitively from a mouse-driven operational standpoint. Also, many people are familiar with the Ribbon, now. I can find things 5x quicker and easier in Sibelius than in Dorico. I definitely have to consult the manual more using Dorico than with Sibelius or Notion. Only Finale is worse, from that standpoint.
Dorico is harder to get to grips with, and Finale’s modal operation is next level. Many people are simply going to reject it because it’s the Emacs of Notation software. Most software these days are not designed to operate like that. Most of its uses get around this via the use of plug-ins and extensions, but this really ramps the cost up to high heavens for someone just buying into it.
Notion is the easiest and most intuitive, but also the most limited in functional scope, followed by MuseScore.
Every application has its own set of keyboard shortcuts that allow you to work swiftly when you have acclimated to them. However, there are other packages that allow new users to be more productive during the learning curve. I think the latter is what can discourage and turn some people off.
I’m not sure that’s true. In my personal experience (which is what this thread is all about, I suppose), I took about 6 months to get up to speedin Sibelius. This admittedly was in pre-ribbon days where you opened Sib to pretty much a blank screen. This was coming from Finale, BTW, which has a button for everything. However, even after 10 or so years using Sibelius extensively, I still didn’t know where to look for some things.
Forward to starting with Dorico, once I’d stopped trying to make it work like Sibelius (and believe me, a lot of swearing went on!) I found that the way it’s been designed really started to make my life a lot easier. Things are exactly where they should be, once you get in to the general concepts behind the way Dorico works. In all, it took me about a month to get Dorico working for me at the speed that I had in Sibelius and after about 4 years with it, I still find myself smiling at how easy some things are to achieve.
I’ve had cause to go back to SIbelius recently to edit some old scores and have been incredibly frustrated with it within minutes at how hard it is to stop it moving things around randomly when you don’t want it to…
Just my 2c
P
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Finale has a button for everything, but it’s extremely modal so how those buttons function isn’t as intuitive as - say - Microsoft Word.
It’s more like using ViM or Emacs with a GUI on top of it.
The Ribbon has been a thing for almost two decades…
Most people coming into the market are likely to be quite familiar with it from using other Microsoft software that utilizes it (Windows, Office, etc.).
Yeah, that’s how old I am, I started using computers before windows was a thing…
P
I don’t come from another notation software like it seems a lot of others do. I got a trial for Sibelius and a trial for Dorico and found Dorico much easier to get on with. Tbh, one look at that ribbon bar in Sibelius was enough to send me packing. I think to master any new software you need to get familiar with the manual and user resources.
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My quandry is this: an improvisor or composer, or someone writing down music that is in his head, chooses a pitch first. After he/she sounds the note, he/she then chooses how long to hold that pitch. Finale speedy entry was like playing an instrument in that sense. It seems Dorico’s pitch-first entry method could be tweeked to mimic that musical thought process. I’m wondering whether I should stick with Dorico long enough for that to materialize.
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The next point release of Dorico will include some changes that introduce some of the speedy entry functionality. We don’t have a date for it yet but it won’t be far away.
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