I'm trying to play the beginning of Thalberg's Moses Var. and then Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata

I tried it myself, and it seems a little… out of place.

How should I change the beginning of Talberman so it fits?

Oh! I’m trying to play it for real, not using a virtual instrument.

I understand this is a gathering of professionals and experts.

How would you change the score for the circled section?

If you’re asking about how best to play something, you would find a better answer on a pianists’ forum. This forum is for questions relating to music notation and Dorico.

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@NIER

Got a question for you. Who or what is “Talberman”?

I agree that the texture changes wildly, but that seems to be the composer’s intention. You could leave out some of the notes in the big chords. Bottom ones in the right hand and top ones in the left to facilitate it.

But you do have the wrong forum for this question.

The first piece is about to resolve into G or Gm.

What I would do is add one bar at the end of the first piece. In that bar, start the broken chord pattern of the Beethoven in Gm . Play that pattern for 3 beats. On the 4th best play the pattern in A7.

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Octaves are missing in LVB Sonata… :wink:

I agree that it’s like a family member determined to make a scene, like the others at the table are expected sit and stare at it.

But this is also a composers forum - so if it’s a situation where writing a better transition is appropriate, something that was hastily put together for a performance program… what do ya’ll think then?

It goes from Gm through a D major chord on the way to the key of D minor basically. The D major is being forced in there. It’s not diatonic, kind of an altered dominant and I don’t know what to call the next one with the Ab . An ex wife?

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I’m not an expert in classical harmony but I the think the Ab is a Neapolitan 6th - a major chord in first inversion on the flattened second of the key. Often followed, as here, by a dominant 7th.

A Neapolitan sixth

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Your first example is from the Moses variations by Sigismund Thalberg.
The bars you show are actually a transition into a next variation of the theme, at the end establishing a new “triplety” accompaniment.
If you want to link this to the Beethoven sonata, which also starts with a similar accompaniment, you should transpose one of the two pieces of music, so they can match.
The Beethoven has already been transposed from its original key up to D Minor, so why not transpose it further up to G Minor?

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Hi @NIER, here a simple possibility: consider the last two chords of the first piece (bar 6), to be already in the new key, and it will connect nicely: instead of a Neapolitan6 in g minor you then will have a Neapolitan6 in d minor (the first chord at the beginning of bar 6) and it is just an inversion of the preceding one (the deceptive cadence goal Eb at end of bar 5): this inverted chord will act as pivot chord between the two keys.

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Here’s another possibility.
It keeps the A flat chord. This is followed by an A7, which coincidentally happens to be the dominant 7th of D minor. The transition is fairly abrupt though, and reminds me of many songs of the 1970’s (or thereabouts) in which each successive verse was up a semitone.

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I still prefer the original theme:

Sorry I misunderstood your question, NIER. If you want to play that intro as prelude to the Beethoven, it could be transposed to the same key as your Beethoven arrangement, D minor. That is, play every note a perfect fourth lower. Otherwise you will have to modify the ending as suggested to end on the dominant of D minor, which is an A major chord.

But if you can play the intro, why are you playing a simplified arrangement of the Beethoven? The original is in C# minor and a lot better sounding with all the notes present.

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I need to listen more than talk, but it seems to me like you are already there at the end of measure 3; that the remainder of the phrase is taking you somewhere you don’t want to go. After the last fermata, putting a soft Gm7 chord in measure 4 resolves the first theme, and also foreshadows the passage of where you will be going in the right hand of moonlight? Its like you rocked gently back from the third measure, then gently forward. Or to move away from the Eb in the first key signature, maybe Gm7 G6. Simplistically:

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@NIER
Developing the idea by @gdball, here a possible little transition idea (until bar 6 is original):

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Thank you all… I can barely play, but I struggle with composing or writing notes.

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  • Thank you all… I can barely play, but I struggle with composing or writing notes.