Dorico is such a vastly superior program to Finale in virtually every way, but I am SO incredibly frustrated by Dorico’s engraving. Is there a reason why you can’t simply move a system to a previous page or decrease the size of everything on a page like Finale’s Page Layout tool? I can deal with moving measures individually to get the right number per system, but it’s beyond aggravating that I can’t easily move systems to previous pages when you hide staves and make room. Similarly, it was great to adjust the page size (%) to accomplish the same. I beg the programmers to PLEASE consider adding such a feature.
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Have a look at “Make into frame”.
Create a frame break at the start of a page, and use the properties panel to change the rastral size at the frame break. Then create another frame break where you want to go back to the previous size.
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The best approach is to start with Layout Options. Set the Note Spacing to get the measures across each system that you want; and set the Minimum Gaps to get the systems and staves laid out as you want.
Manual adjustments should be thought of as fine-tuning, rather than wholesale process.
I produce the vast majority of my scores with almost no manual layout work at all !!
If you can upload a sample score, we can advise how to proceed.
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Yes, very easy to get systems onto different pages/frames by making frame and system breaks and then using the properties in Engrave mode: wait for next system break and wait for next frame break. You can force any system onto any page.
I like to use the lock format function in Engrave Mode because this will automatically put in Frame and System breaks. Put the rhythmic value on a whole note (for a 4/4 meter for example) and then select breaks and use option+command (on a Mac) + arrow keys to shift them back and forth. Using the ‘wait until…’ properties in Engrave mode is really brilliant.
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I appreciate the help and will experiment more later, but it’s undeniably a bit more effortful than Finale. I would really appreciate it if the designers could please examine that aspect of the program and make it more intuitive.
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Don’t take offense at this… I think it’s very unlikely they’re going to make it more “intuitive” (translation: “more like Finale, which I’m used to”).
Trust me… many of us came from Finale. It takes time, but learn the Dorico way and you’ll come to appreciate it. Keep pining for Finale workflow and you’ll be perpetually frustrated.
Dorico layout is faster than Finale for most things, once you learn how to use it.
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Amen to this
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Yes, it is certainly more effortful to do the layout work “the finale way” in Dorico, instead of the Dorico way as Dan just said. As soon as you realize that you do not have to do almost anything of that work once you have your settings right, you will see.
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Josh, I happen to agree with you, and I do like Dorico. I get the impression that many of the helpful folks here may be composers of orchestral music.
I do a lot of commercial work and it is not so easy to say have three lines of 4 bars each followed by a 5 bar line, then 6 lines of 4 bars again in Dorico. Layouts are an area where Finale happens to shine. But I also use Sibelius because some clients prefer it. It was the same issue with them, and finally, after some 25 years, they have just instituted a plugin to accomplish the kind of layout freedom that Finale has had for many years.
The Dorico team read all of the comments here and I would not be surprised if at some point they institute a better way to handle layouts for commercial projects.
That being said, my primary reason for learning Dorico is to be prepared for the client that requires its use. When I have to write an arrangement for a client and the choice is mine I still use Finale.
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Having you set a casting off value? Fixing the number of bars per system
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if you’re not getting that from Note Spacing, then it’s just a matter of setting some Breaks, surely?
In Finale, I would do the same with Locked systems.
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How could it be any easier than selecting something in a bar and pressing comma or period to move systems around? Yes, turn off fixed casting-off.
No, I’m sorry, there’s no advantage here to Finale.
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I felt the same way as the OP when I started using Dorico. The layout process was nerve-wracking for work in which the program cannot be relied on to come up with the correct results and has to be constantly overridden because of special requirements. Now, it’s just annoying.
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Thanks everyone for your help! I’m embarrassed to admit (please don’t make fun of me Dorico gurus) that I turned off signposts, didn’t realize it, and THAT was why I was having such engraving problems 
Dorico is still a bit clunkier than Finale regarding engraving, but at least it’s (tedious but) doable.
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The signposts are a must Josh. Clunky but doable yes.
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Yes I have, thanks for that. The issue is that once you commit to say 4 bars per line, any deviation requires you to address each subsequent line rather than being able to do a mass setting. Unless I am overlooking a feature that already exists.
I think the biggest misunderstanding between concert music people and commercial people is the idea that “good spacing” is the only desired outcome. In commercial music phrases are everything. Certain events must start a line, regardless of other considerations.
In that light Finale has the distinct advantage over Dorico and until recently Sibelius as well. I can certainly press a comma or period to address every line of music that deviates from my castoff settings. But in Finale I can address a page or two at a time.
At some point I imagine Dorico will address this. The non commercial people won’t give it a thought but we commercial folks will be singing their praises.
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I sure hope they do! As soon as I fixed my first problem, I ran into more spacing issues in the subsequent pages…
Can you post some pics, or better yet, the project? I’m not convinced this needs to be complicated. I may be wrong.
Sure! So the first couple pages are okay, but then it turns into 2 systems per page, then turns back into 3 systems per page around 10 or so,
jmsib5-3.dorico (3.1 MB)