Independent time signatures: removal

I know how to create a time signature on a single staff (ALT/OPT-Enter). However, I am trying to do this where the other staves already have changing meters. When I create the time signature on the independent staff, it only changes the signature for one measure, and the other meter changes (the 9/8 and 6/8) remain. How can I get rid of these?

If it’s just these 2 staves you could make the 9/8 etc. independent on the lower staff as well. Or you could treat them the other way around, making 2/4 the global meter and the others independent.

If you have many instruments that change meter together and an independent staff that remains unchanged, a third way is to copy or re-enter the same independent meter and hide it.

Thanks Mark. In fact, the 2/4 staff is one of about 50, so making the 6/8 staff the independent one is not a viable option.

It seems that if I try to reenter the same independent meter, I still end up with a 9/8 in the middle of a 2/4 bar, and I can’t get rid of it. I guess I’m just not sure how independent meter is supposed to work if it does not also allow removing meter independently.

Do you want the 2/4 go through all the time?

Yes! How can I get that to happen, as in your image?

I just created it this way from the beginning. I also didn’t managed to get it this way from your starting point in a “easy” way.

Maybe it’s the easiest to delete all time signatures in this passage, start with a 6/8 and a 2/4 and enter the 9/8 as independent. All the music should stay intact.
If you need this for multiple instruments, just create two correct staffs, and copy the signatures to the other staffs.

@Nukkul thanks. Just to confirm then: there’s no way to remove a time signature from an independent staff? That seems like a flaw in the system, no?

I wouldn’t say it’s a flaw. A (normal) global meter change can’t be removed from only one staff.

I see the error of my third method, now. I think you’ll just have to bite the bullet and make them all independent for that passage.

@Mark_Johnson bummer! Ok, well it could be worse. :slightly_smiling_face:

Maybe you can change all the meter changes of the staff to be independent and then select and delete them and set a 2/4?

As long as they aren’t independent you cannot delete them from a staff.

@Nukkul Sorry, I’m not sure I follow. When you say “all the meter changes of the staff” do you mean all the meter changes already in place for the whole score? It’s my understanding now that the only way to do it is to have all meters on all staves independent as long as any meter changes occur within either the “independent” staff or the remaining staves.

@Lillie_Harris For what it’s worth, among all the other million things you have on your plate, I think it would be good to have this clarified in the documentation, if it’s true.

Ok, now that I’ve made all the time signatures independent, the measure numbers are a mess!

Sry my second idea didn‘t worked as expected. It looks like the bar numbers stay in 6/8?

It seems that they follow the last global time signature.

Ok. And they should follow the 6/8, 9/8 bars?

Yes. And I thought I found a workaround that involved removing some barlines before removing the existing global signatures. When I did that, I was able to get the measure numbers and meter changes correct on all “regular” staves. However, as soon as I start editing meter in the ossia staff, the measure numbers get messed up again. This is a total nightmare, not to mention it takes well over a minute of processing time every time I make a meter change. :frowning:

If one has two or more sets of bars going simultaneously, I’m not surprised that automatic measure numbering is affected.

@Derrek Why? Would it not make sense that a single staff whose meter is different from the others not affect the remaining staves? Especially in this case, I simply want to show, via an ossia staff, a different grouping than the one represented in the other staves. In order for independent meter signatures to really work effectively, it seems to me that they should, at a minimum, allow: a) removal of global signatures from any staff whose meter breaks away from the rest of the bunch, so to speak, and b) allow for the adjustment of measure numbers in whatever way is most appropriate for the excerpt. If there were at least a way to manually move measure numbering mid-measure, it would be possible to work around it. But as far as I know, there is not (and I will be happy to be corrected!)

With the current functionality, my impression is that independent meter is really only useful for very simple situations in which meter does not change within the passages that feature independent staves.

I’m not sure, if you can do it the way you want it to be.

Maybe just use different beaming?

Well, I think that different beaming might be somewhat helpful, but it really doesn’t get to the heart of it, which is that the particular part is really easy in a meter written differently than the gli altri meter. I don’t think the beaming will do enough to clarify without also adding some clutter to the part—though I appreciate the thought.