What valid criticisms? And what questions have you answered?
This was your claim:
So make this nice and clear.
QUESTION: What hoops are they?
And an answer, which you never gave, if you could be so kind:
32 bit windows apps still work on the latest versios of Windows and modern hardware. They donāt get further devā¦but they still work. That is legacy support.
Not hateā¦criticism.
As for issues relative to H6 and H7ā¦we are mostly speculating. I have no idea what the holdups are.
What I do know is that currently I have 2 industry standard hosts that canāt do vst3. Not sure if it will matterā¦but a little apprehensive.
Hoopsā¦see numerous threads of people trying to get vst plugins running or locate native vst3 versions.
Ohhh, against tea now are we , is it because itās Meeeeeeee ? drinking it . Oh well .
Thats me being Anti not Brian , just remember that .
Again i only read your first couple of lines before i start yarning and drifting into creative land .
Enjoy ohhhh rightous one , i shall tickle your toes when you start complaining about your beloved quite soon i should imagine .
To the group not Mr righteous and back on track
HALion 7
I wonder what goodies we will receive this time . Itās been a long time in development and i suppose , future proofing is the important thing but ive got a funny feeling there is a major overhaul in the making .
It is possible that H& will be released before an update of the Absolute package , it just means Steinberg will have too issue you with a separate licence which might not be a bad thing .
Who knows and im guessing just after the end of this sale we will hear some news
Haha, youāre unreal. Thatās a Steinberg decision as part of them dropping VST2 and specific to Cubase/Nuendo. Nothing do with Apple.
Or, Are you seriously implying that itās Appleās fault that Steinberg are dropping VST2 now?
I mean, tick a box and run in Rosetta modeā¦ And itās the same as what you run on Windowsā¦ Not that youād know.
Well thatās 1-0 to me on the superior list then, as iām reading both your waffle AND replying at an incredibly high standard! Even mods have had to slow the thread down as they were laughing at both your fantasies so much. Mwuhahaha 
FM Synthesis, and a protection system that kills third party support. 
Iād like to think that, but still canāt see it at this point, that 18 month mark is just too close and spins $$$ signs.
I think, using my incredibly talented brain, the chance of hold-up is something like along these lines:
5% Chance - Apple Silicon
10% Chance - Licensing/legal arrangements still being tied up
10% Chance - Staff been engaged in other projects
20% Chance - Ongoing Bug fixes
25% Chance - SB Licensing being refined to offer more security
30% Chance - Absolute a factor, so waiting to get to the 18+ month threshold. (Now at 17).
99% Chance - Windows updates, forced restarts and telemetry playing havoc with internal operations.
If you want this in audio cassette form to take to bed, let me know. I donāt want you falling asleep at the desk and doing untold damage to yourself. 
No one ever said the fault lay fully on Appleās door step. Some users have speculated that it may well have something to do with delays in releases, and/or bugs/issues in current releases.
Youāre still missing my point all along. The furthest you can roll back an M1 in the not so distant future without keeping alternate boot partitions and a whole bunch of other mess will likely be Cubase HALion 6 or 7 and Cubase 12.
This might not matter to you YOU, but it does to some of us.
In Windows world you can go back as far as SX, maybe even further, on Windows 11, and modern hardware.
A little planning before pulling the drives, and one can plug the original system disk and data drives in and be up and running from pretty close to the last state you left the project.
The good news in all of this, which might make it a mute point for some, is that Steinberg apps ALSO run under windows, on a lot of processors besides M1.
We still have OPTIONS.
I had shifted away from the Apple topic, and back to potential issues (apprehension over unknown variables in the next few years) with HALion.
I canāt use quite a few of my HALion libraries in Sibelius, nor Finale anymore.
And please donāt just say, āThen use Dorico!ā I do have and use Doricoā¦but many of my clients and their sets of stakeholders do NOT. Weāre attempting to embed learning modules and such for a variety of institutions/situations.
The latest HSSE doesnāt work at all in those hosts without a fancy third party bridge. It botches a lot of things Iād been planning for eLearning scenarios since I canāt roll libraries for a free HALion player in these hosts anymore.
I learned a lesson. Donāt roll sound sets with Steinberg/HALion. I should have used a free SFZ player or something and not wasted my time with HALion. Had to shift gearsā¦lost time/money in the process.
Perhaps it will āget fixedā in due order (Those hosts catch up and support VST3, or some free variant of HSSE in VST2 gets put back up for downloadā¦as the version that was working, and the page that goes with it hasnāt worked for some time now)ā¦STALLED.
Personally, I think HALion should still come in VST2 for a release or two at least. Maybe Iām in a small enough minority that it doesnāt matter to Steinberg. Oh wellā¦there are other options out there!
If Steinberg neglects to provide at least ONE post dongle release for M1 Macs that supports VST2 NATIVELY, I think itāll be a MISTAKE.
Iāll reserve judgement for now, because there is STILL TIME. They might do it, and they might not. Weāll wait and see. If they DO, I think it will cover most of my concerns. While it wonāt be āidealā, it will show a serious EFFORT to have that avenue for legacy support for people who need it.
Kill VST2 after Cubendo 13.5/14 [Same for Dorico 4.x or 5) if it has solid native VST2 supportā¦and I see a clear and reasonable legacy support path for Cubendo/Dorico users of old (still have their dongles), and new (never had one, and never will. Theyāll get a solid release with VST2 support to fall back to).
If there is at least ONE solid, native M1 release that fully supports VST2, then this is a good thing for legacy support.
People joining the Cubendo/Dorico realm post dongle era should get at least one SOLID release that still supports VST2 that they can roll back to, and that works WITHOUT āRossetta 2ā.
Why? Not everyone will have a DONGLEā¦and the ones that still exist arenāt going to ālast foreverā.
Until such time as Apple yanks Rosetta. From what Iāve read there is no commitment to continue providing and supporting it in OS releases beyond 2023. If itās like Rosetta 1 for PPCā¦it wonāt be included in very many releases.
Weāll wait and see. They might keep it up as an auto install thing āwhen neededā indefinitely, but there is no COMITTMENT for them to do so.
Can you roll back earlier than Cubase 12 on an M1 Mac and have a reliable workstation? Maybe you can, but I was led to believe that in the least some of the INSTALLERS were broken at one point, and that you MUST have Rosetta 2 installed on the Mac. I also have seen numerous threads where people are seeking help with the issue.
You know this how? The mods are LAUGHING at discussions concerning legacy support?
Fantasy? Fairytales? Personally disparaging remarks?
I made my case. Iāve admitted I have biases, and never claimed that I didnāt.
Itās not based on fantasy and fairy tales. I made my case based on my own anecdotal experiences. For me, they were NOT GOOD. Even if it was āall my faultā they experiences were not goodā¦it doesnāt matter. I had BETTER experiences going other routes.
Nothing personal against people who invest in Apple. If it fits your needs and provides the ROI youāre seekingā¦good for you!
You still refuse to acknowledge that my rants all along have been about LEGACY SUPPORT. You know full well that this is NOT one of the Macās strong points, nor has it EVER been so. Planned obsolescence has always been a card that Apple plays. It does offer some āpositivesā to the computing worldā¦but it deals quite a heap of problems as well.
I can go buy a new PC today (a little research from the notes I took with each pull before buying something helpsā¦but there are numerous options out there to get very solid motherboards built specifically with legacy support in mind), and drop the system (sysprepped before pulled) and data drives of almost any DOS/Windows machine Iāve ever owned, going way back to the early 90s, plug in my old devices/hardware/instruments, and the thing will still pick up in nearly the same state as I left it. As opposed to ārebuilding the projectā using all waveform archives, I can easily replace whatever bits no longer work, and more easily port/dub/convert things to newer formats āif desiredā.
In some kinds of productionā¦this stuff matters! In my āfantasy worldā (that was, and still is actually REAL) as you put itā¦each client has a freaking CLOSET housing every project weād ever done for them. YES, they frequently wanted to pick up old campaigns right where they left off and continue working with them. Under one platform, we hot-swapped drives, rebuilt the rig according to the attached tech-writers, and went to work. We could āexploreā the cutting edge toys with clients as time rolls forward, but we could also āgo backā to any point in time technically with those clients we so chose and be in a very good position to either continue working with the āold techā, or convert it to the new.
Personally, I still do it in a similar way on a much smaller scale. As far as I know, I canāt achieve this work-flow with a Mac as an individual without some pretty hefty investments in very specialized, and āexpensiveā software. Yes, Iām aware that there are now technologies to build virtual machines and such as part of the back-up process, but itās not cheap, and itās not quite the same.
Alas, I digressā¦done here. I wonāt mention āAppleā again in this thread.
Well iāve got Cubase 9.5 running on an M1 Mini that I use for testing, so more fantasy from you.
[quote=āBrian_Roland, post:130, topic:810534ā]
In Windows world you can go back as far as SX, maybe even further, on Windows 11, and modern hardware.[/quote]
Thatās an example of Apple users being forced to jump through hoops? The fact that they canāt run Cubase SX natively on modern MacOS? I meanā¦ Seriously? 
Whatabout driver issues, DPC Latency issues, interference, Power management, Registry hacks to prevent forced updates, reduction of Telemetry - These ARE genuine hoops that you have to go through to get a stable Audio machine running with Windows.
I know, as I primarily use Windows, MacOS is an absolute breeze by comparison. I wish it wasnāt, as itās an expensive eco systemā¦
What is it that youāre so precious about going back to? Just archive everything into audio - Seems that youāre more precious about the O/S than the music. Anyone relying on a plugin to work in 10+ years is asking for trouble - and thatās coming from a Windows user perspective.
I mean, if it all went tits up, you just buy an old $100 machine off eBay and recall your snapshot - not even something to be concerned about. All I care about is my content, what version of which DAW is hosting that, really doesnāt matter to me.
If it matters to you then iād suggest that youāre putting far too much weight on IT matters than you are the music. But thatās personal opinion. We all have our hobbies, mine, by the way, is opening the Macbook lid wherever I am and being able to compose for 10+ hours without disruption - and itās simply fantastic.
I never sit and think to myself āDamn, I wish I could open Cubase SX on thisā.
This isnāt 2001 my friend, youāre not doing this kind of work today.
Moreso, Apple users DONāT have to jump through hoops to use Cubase, They also donāt need to be any more specific about archiving projects than a Windows user should.
But more to the point, neither of you pushing this weird anti-Apple campaign use a modern mac, yet are both spouting off weird nonsense about it. If it makes you feel better in someway then all power to you - but donāt expect it to go unchallenged.
Sorry but this whole discussion getās a little boringā¦ 
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Yes too much, please start something else, here it is HALion 7.
Something that makes me curious is how many people will be buying the update purely to move to the new licensing. I really donāt care too much about improvements if iām honest. HALion is more of a quick go to for me to get some ideas down - the integration and efficiency within Cubase just makes it an ideal one stop shop for that.
Iād like to see the interface become more scaleable as the icons can be so small on hi res displaysā¦ But other than that, iāll probably end up buying (Via Absolute) to be able to go between laptop and desktop without having to carry that damn dongle around with me.
Well , im glad , all my comments are said on the light side of life , i donāt go out to score points , remember that ahhh . If scoring points and being head honcho floats your boat then ā¦you still have a way to go in my book .
You seem to be on a one man crusade to belittle everyoneās personal opinions . Carry on , im out ā¦
Not at all, you specified that these āAntiā rants were facts and when questioned failed to back them up. So iām pleased that youāre now saying theyāre personal opinionsā¦ Which indeed was the whole crux of this childish āCrappleā fantasy to start with.
Eerie part is that neither you or the other guy have any experience of using a modern Mac with Cubase.
Anyway, I never wanted to be chatting about this to start with and kept trying to remind people that this is a thread related to HALion. So, Have a good day, and donāt choke on that ghastly tea! 
Mr/mrs/miss/IT Toes ,you continue to try and provoke , how about meeting up in a nice little coffee shop somewhere and discuss further this little case ? Im game .
Pointer on Macās , just for the record , i had never nor will i ever contemplate using a Crapple . just remember that . sign sealed job done .
Pm me with a meeting coffee shop to carry this discussion on .
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Not sure anyone cares what you use to be honest mate, but they will be pleased to see youād rather talk in private. Very sensible, PMād you and apologies for anyone whoās had to read this discussion.
STOP arguing with me at a personal level. You are trolling.
You honestly think I canāt read a calendar? Kiss off! Itās not the 1700s either, but needs still arise to use instruments from, or clones of them from the 1700s.
I can source modern or used PC equipment in hours, have it on hand within the week, and be up and running in half a day or less, in the exact same project state, simply by mounting drives in a sled and shoving them in.
Itās not as simple to source actual Mac hardware over its various periods of development, and itās a heck of a lot more expensive. We most certainly could not have serviced hundreds of accounts in the same way we could with half a dozen fairly uniform enterprise class machines put together with legacy support in mind.
I just explained a working scenario that is REAL, not fantasy. Thousands of accounts with hundreds of projects per account going on for decades. It is not perfect, but it works. These are pretty complex SYSTEMS that rely on a lot of outboard gear! Dealt with multiple media formats! Much of it still needs to be accessedā¦and yesā¦even though it is now ā2022ā!
No one said there arenāt various issues when rebuilding a workstation and surrounding SYSTEM components, but in our experience itās much quicker than REBUILDING the project from the archived source material every single time we want to pull material and rework/reuse it. Plus, if it does come to thatā¦all that stuff is still on the original system and project drives! Everything was done in a raid-like array so there are up to 4 copies of every drive.
MOST of the timeā¦plug in the drives, hook up the system components, boot a few times, and you are in a very good position to continue working!
Yes, there are also some situations where it BREAKS and doesnāt work right off the shelf, and weād retrieve the source track material, masters, stuff thatād been exported in MIDI,XML,etc. (we did that stuff too before yanking drivesā¦typically with custom scripts at the end of each shift).
Anyway, Iām done with this. Back to work. Talk about wasting timeā¦arguing hereā¦
Fancy coming out for a burger, dawg?
Wow! You really are living in the past 
.
All kidding aside, I appreciate the fact that you need to access old projects and have found a way to accomplish that task.
This thread has become a comedy of gigantic egos. Keep going, itās hilarious !
Meanwhile, back at the ranch ā¦ I hope HALion 7 is released soon so everyone can start bitching about it!
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Yes, it is time for Haion 7 to release now and get Absolute 6 out too!
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And on a 50% introductory offer!! ā¦am i right?
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