Is the audio quality of Dorico Elements comparable to Pro when writing for 12 instruments or less?

So, to understand: there’s a sample that does a built-in, fixed length crescendo and decrescendo; and you want to use that instead of controlling the dynamic ‘normally’ using notated dynamics?

Yes, I didn’t realize it was a fixed length, lol. I just got lucky with the length for something I came up with for a classical guitar & alto sax intro. I prefer it because it sounds more realistic than what I’m getting from the ordinario preset.

First of all, you need something in your score that’s going to trigger this, and that needs to be associated to an expression in your map, which applies the C#1 keyswitch.

I have no idea what that something could be. I’m guessing the hairpins won’t work because the cres-dim sample is a fixed length.

The KS Vel patch would seem to control dynamics through Note Velocity, and the “KS Wheel” patch would controll dynamics through the Modulation Wheel (CC1).

I don’t own a midi keyboard. Does Dorico have a virtual modulation wheel?

Thanks so much for your help, Ben.


AFAIK Dorico does not have a Mod Wheel.

The HALion (Sonic) Player does on one of its screens. I do not know whether one could somehow use that to enter Mod data into the Key Editor and then switch the VST to the what one wanted while retaining the CC data.

One can “draw in” data on a CC channel in the Key Editor, if that is easier.

Hi Ben,
Just checked the manual: “The ranges are given in international format : middle C = C4”

I selected C4 for middle C and it changed C#1 KS to C2 for cres/dim in the EM. Still playing ordinario/natural.

Sorry, C#2, not C2.

Don’t create “Base” expressions for Crescendo and Crescendo-diminuendo.

Your music should switch between Natural and staccato. (Not sure why you’ve got pizz there, as you haven’t got pizz in your Expression map. How does a Sax do pizzicato? :thinking:)

Use CC1 (or whatever the sample uses) to define the dynamics within the sample instrument itself. If the extent of the dynamic change isn’t large enough, there are ways to deal with that.

Hi all ,

I really appreciate you all trying to help a noob, but I need to take a break.
Yeah, about the pizz for sax, I don’t know how or why that got in there. It’s been a busy week, so far, and I shouldn’t be working on this just before bed.
Managed to make the cres/dim work with cc11 EM, but then the Staccato & Natural presets stopped working. It likely had something to do with having two EMs.
I attempted to tweak something in the EM but it crashed, so I threw in the towel. I’ll have more time this weekend, starting Friday.


Hi Ben,

I removed the Base expressions & used the Add-on for Crescendo- Diminuendo - I didn’t see any other choice.
The problem is all 3 patches play at once. I’m not sure what to put in the score to trigger the Cres/Dim patch besides the dynamics & hairpins.


Keyswitches are EITHER/OR.

CC values can be ADDED to a given keyswitch.

You can’t really use an Add-on to provide a keyswitch.

Sample libraries tend to provide a lot of things that can only be used in DAWs. Theres little use in Notation apps for fixed length swells.

I would not bother using the Cresc-dim sample at all.

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The problem with using the natural/ord preset is that the timbre does not change as it gets louder in volume or softer as it decreases.

to put it mildly, that’s something of an oversimplification even if I do understand what you’re getting at. All the major vendors have lots of patches with built-in timbre and dynamic changes and providing the patch approximately corresponds to the note length required, there’s no reason for not using it in notation software – which I and a number of others I know do to greatly add to expressive effect. I assume that’s what Dom is looking for here.

Even things like runs can be used in notation software providing you have separate staffs for playback and notation --the playback one being hidden of course. That’s often the only way to get effective playback for certain ornaments or multi-note tremolos for instance.

Hi all,
I created separate staves for each patch and enabled Independent Voice Playback. Ir worked for cres/dim, crescendo, ordinario/nat, but not staccato for some strange reason. After tinkering with the staccato patch, it crashed. I tried again, but this time I couldn’t get sound from any of the patches.

Major81, thank you for your generous offer, but I don’t want to spend $249e for the bundle when all I want is the Tenor Sax. Besides, I also need a trumpet. I did find the Swami demos impressive.

If I had the ability to use Xsample’s contemporary tenor sax and German trumpet in Dorico, I’d be inclined to buy the rest of their instruments.


why can’t you? Xsample does provide Cubase Expression Maps for these instruments which should be a good starting point. XSample libraries are also written with notation in mind, although it’s true that they don’t yet support Dorico directly.

I read in this thread that people were having trouble with Cubase EM for Xsample. Daniel Spreadbury suggested that creating Expression maps from scratch is the best way to go.
After reading through this thread, I am hesitant to try it.

Xsample contemporary strings expression map problems

you can’t really just use a Cubase map as is but it may save time as a starting point (I briefly did so at one stage with a VSL library and it worked after a fashion). To be honest, virtually all my own maps I’ve created from scratch and enjoy doing it though I know it’s not for everyone. So far I haven’t invested in XSample libraries, though they remain on my radar.

On the thread you referred to, there were at least a couple of people who created maps they were reasonably happy with so perhaps there’s something there that meets your requirements?

Indeed, I’ll investigate further to find successful users of Xsample, but right now I just want to get back to composing, so I’ll resume where I left off with Sibelius. Last night, I managed to resolve my patch triggering problems by adding an extra staff to the Ircam tenor sax in Sibelius 6.2 (Yeah, it’s old & I need to switch to Dorico). I should have done this earlier, but I stubbornly resisted adding extra staves.

Thank you, David, for your kind and motivating words. If I manage to succeed with an Xsample instrument on Dorico, I’ll definitely post about it.