I’m currently setting up my template for composing to Atmos and I’m facing a strange issue with the center signal.
In the picture I put 4 SuperVision to see if the signal is sent correctly to the bed.
Let me explain the picture:
- 1: Strings long 7.1.4 group SuperVision:.
Here is a 7.1.4 group where all my long strings long are routed to.
This group is routed to the STRINGS group (number 3 on the image).
This string long group also has a send to a 7.1.4 reverb (number 2 in the picture).
- 2: 7.1.4 reverb (Liquid Sonics Cinematic Rooms Pro) SuperVision:.
Here is a 7.1.4 reverb with the center signal turned off, and as you can see at number 2, there is actually no output signal in the center.
(See the second image attached for the reverb config)
- 3: STRINGS 7.1.4 Group SuperVision:.
Here is a 7.1.4 group where all long, short, etc. strings are routed.
This group is routed to the bed of the Atmos (number 4 in the picture).
For this group (number 3) you can see that there is no center.
- 4: Atmos Bed Group SuperVision:.
This is where everything is routed to.
And this is where I don’t understand what’s happening, I have some signal in the center channel.
I’m obviously meesing something here, but I can’t figure out what.
Thanks in advance for your help and suggestions.
Maybe double-check panning options on all tracks? Not just turning off the center in the plugin…
Hi @MattiasNYC ,
I just check the panner of the global STRINGS group and I have this.
I don’t understand … The input is clean no Center, And the output is sending a center …
Hold down the ALT key and click the centre speaker icon to turn it off.
Hi @MAS ,
Yes I did that, the problem is that is going back to his default position when you load the Atmos template.
BTW when I disable the send signal on the long string (routed to the global STRINGS bus) the center (and all the other channel) is/are gone but the input is good …
You can save a preset for the plug-in settings. But normally when you save a template, the deactivation of a channel is also saved in the panner. I know this because I did it myself yesterday when I updated all my Atmos templates to 9.1.6.
I almost forgot to welcome you to the forums. So welcome to the forum!
I justed to root the STRINGS 7.1.4 into a 7.1.4 group and now the output of STRINGS group is ok :
And of course I routed the new 7.1.4 group to the Bed and this new 7.1.4 group has a center channel …
Because something essential has changed. Can you see the line with the additional dot at the front and rear speakers?
This changes the signal. In your picture above, the signal from the front speakers has spread into the centre channel. Please click on the small arrow next to the ‘Bed Mode’ button so that you can see the whole panner.
I know what your problem is: your last bus is smaller than all the buses before it. If you route your signal from a 9.1.6 bus to a 7.1.2 bus, for example, Nuendo has to decide what to do with the signals that now go to a speaker that does not exist in the smaller group. The panner shows you this dilemma with the dash and the additional dot. As a result, part of the signal now goes to speakers where you don’t want it.
I just checked and you are right, the bed is in 7.1.2 and my other channel are in 7.1.4.
And if I’m not mistaken, it’s not possible to have more than 7.1.2 in the bed, right?
Does anyone know if this limitation is over in nuendo 13? I’m on nuendo 12.
This not related to Nuendo but to Dolby Atmos logic :
The choice of using an object versus a bed is entirely up to the mixer however there are a few things to keep in mind:
What’s the difference between beds and objects?
• Bed channels map differently to different overhead speaker configurations. Overheads in an x.y.4 configuration will create a phantom center of the x.y.2 component, whereas in an x.y.6 overhead configuration, it will use the point source speakers. If you have a concern about a source in the overhead beds, try switching it to an object so you can have more control over how it renders.
This is the case not only with Nuendo, but with any Atmos-enabled DAW. This is a Dolby specification. The maximum channel layout that can be selected for a bed is 7.1.2.
In Nuendo, you can prevent a phantom center, as described above. Either by deactivating the center completely in the panner (ALT + click on the loudspeaker symbol)…
…or by changing the sound field using the scale settings. (Your approach depends on how the object/audio should sound.)
Yes, N13 goes up to 9.1.6.
I don’t think that’s correct, or at least we should keep the nomenclature clear for the sake of not getting confused.
From Dolby’s perspective the Renderer still maxes out at 7.1.2 for actual beds. Anything higher than that that’s ‘grouped’ together is basically either the bed+objects or just objects, and exists solely on the DAW side of things. The following article is from June this year:
Why doesn’t the Renderer have 7.1.4 or larger beds? (dolby.com)
Considering that both are mixed together in (up to) 16 “clusters” in the end, this thing with the objects and the bed is really unnecessarily complicated. There is still the claim that beds are preferred to objects in the final coding, but I personally have not found any evidence for this.
Basically, objects are more flexible and therefore preferable in many situations.
Within Nuendo, the question of bed and object is mainly a technical one. From a creative point of view, the question of “bed vs. object” is actually irrelevant or a question of personal workflow. Thanks to “multi-objects” and the fact that I can use the panner with objects in “bed” mode, it makes no difference whether I define something as an object or a bed (with the restriction that beds are limited to the 7.1.2 layout.)
It’s possibly more related to sound-to-picture, especially cinematic. Without being limited to the clusters in Atmos home and wanting easier ways of working with files I can see how using beds might be preferable.
Of course, Atmos for cinema does not have the technical limitations of the home version. But creatively I don’t see any difference. A 7.1.2 track as a bed or as an object makes no difference to me when editing in Nuendo. But perhaps I’m missing something.
Nuendo gives you the option of having multiple Atmos beds. On the other hand I’m always running short of objects so I have to ration it.
thanks for your answers.
I going to use this template only for film music composition so I decided to setup everything in 7.1.2.
I know that the mix ingenieur will not be shocked. Not so long before we sometimes didn’t have the time or money to compose in 5.1 so the mix ingenieur take the 2.0 and put some of the music in the other channel.
So here with the 7.1.2, once again, only on the music side, and everything back at the end in a 7.1.4 configuration will be good enough I think.