Just a tempo Tip...

I discovered a smart solution to get a more live sound. If your drum vst instrument follow exactly for example 120 bpm ir sounds unmusical,even if the midi is “loose”. At least i think so. But i imported a back vocal track from a live recording. Then used beat detection. > A tempo map which follow roughly between 87 and 89 bpm (blues). The use for example addictive drums so sync with your tempo map you just created. Make the midi a little more loose than the excelllent AD drummer and you have a more “live” feeling. Just a tempo tip. Maybe everyone know this.

… another few things worth remembering in addition to the above…
when programming drums, particularly if you are trying to create the feel of a live drummer…
rock drummers tend to ‘push’… so they often play the snare slightly ahead of the beat, the inverse is true for funkier styles.
drummers have two hands! DURH! you say but most drummers are right handed so their left hand tends to be a little weaker and slower than their right… so adjust accordingly, so if you’re playing 16ths on the hats make the left hand (even numbered beats usually) slightly later and quieter… again rockier drummers tend to push and funkier players will play slightly behind the beat… if you use BD then use the lane offset.
Don’t have all your velocities at the same value… drummers are people too you know! :wink: so they naturally vary their velocity with the sticks too.
when we hit certain kit pieces harder they actually increase in pitch ever so slightly… BFD2 allows you to recreate this but a tiny amount of pitch bend can do the same thing. Drummers tend to ‘lean’ into their hats when they’re playing harder too putting more pressure on the hihat pedal which in turn raises their pitch… all kinds of little subtleties like that in conjunction with MC’s post above and you’ll be sounding like steve gadd in no time! :wink:

Aloha m,

I do this manually with the ‘Tempo Track’ but I like your
approach.

I will give it a try in the next few days.
{’-’}

But also remember that “Random wrongness” is not the same as “Human feel”. When a good drummer departs from the click, he’s perfectly in control, not being sloppy.

Horses for courses, but my preference for rock is to push the kick slightly ahead and the snare slightly behind. I have found a lot of American drummers have this feel and it often imparts a laid back groove.

I also prefer slicing and dicing by hand with real drums for the same reason - bang on the beat often de-humanises.

I would have to say then… that I am more human than human ! :laughing:

I agree and have many times hit the undo button for quantize after realizing the drummer sounded better with the odd timing nuance.

Cool! Keep the tips coming :slight_smile:

Sorry, you won’t sound like Gadd at all. The no time I agree with. :mrgreen:
This is totally overcomplicating the mechanics of a drummer. Just keep the concept simple, the tempo adjustments on the tiny side and the dynamics half as drastic as you think they should be and you’ll sound like a competent drummer sooner than you think.
Drummers ar a lot more accurate than any “musician” gives them credit for.To make timing natural try twiddling around with the guitar, vox and bass parts rather than the drums because in my experience that’s where most of the time-movement will be. Of course it’s only after thirty years or so playing that I think I know it all. :mrgreen:
How come nobody ever insists I play to a click after I insist that the rest of the band does too?

Exactly! (I’m a not a great fan of drummers but when you get to work with a great one, they tick like a clock)

If you’re going to track a band to click then everybody should be hearing it!

If that approach works for you that’s great… there is of course more than one way to skin a cat, i usually find a very sharp knife works better than blunt force…
There are some drummers who just can’t keep up with a click though unfortunately… that’s the great thing with Beat Designer though… you only have to punch it into it once :wink:

Another handy tip timing wise particularly for funk is to make the 4th beat of every 4th or 8th bar slightly early, that way the track will ‘hang’ ever so slightly before coming back down on the ‘one’… pretty much anything by george clinton and particularly prince/maurice day etc…

Yes some rock drummers do push the kick and lay back with the snare… it all depends on the drummer really, good thing to do is to pick one or two and rip apart a few of their tunes to see how they work… can be quite an eye opener sometimes, particularly if you create a tempo map and see how much the tempo drifts by comparison. It’s possible to tell if the original track was done against a click very often as the drummer/band will speed up going into a chorus or coming out of a turn around and then slow back down to get in time with the click again… i was having a look at ‘Rise’ by Herb Alpert a few weeks back and it was glaringly obvious that was what was going on in parts… try it for yourselves!
If you want to get really clever with your programming then knowing about ‘sticking’ is handy too… a couple of books worth looking at are ‘the art of the drummer’ by John Savage and ’ the rudiments and theory of snare drum’ by Buddy Rich… depends how deep down the rabbit hole you want to go :wink:… mind you i’ve met a few drummers who have no concept of ‘sticking’ either lol

Irony, dear lad. Oh, the irony. :mrgreen: Totally missed. Though maybe I missed yours.

Because of the attitudes quoted below. Drummers should not be the only ones listening to a click whichever way you skin the cat. If the rest of the band drift from the drummer what does he follow? The click or the music? No, he stops and tells the band to listen to the click as well. Yeah, punch a drum machine once and it’s knocked out and doesn’t sound like a drummer. :mrgreen: That’s “musicians” talk to me.
Most drummers can keep up with a click unless you’re dealing with untrained kids. Read any drummers forums and you’ll find that most half decent drummers already have done five years training to metronome.
It’s the other musicians and programmers that can’t keep up, unfortunately because they think that metronomes make them lose the “feel”. Learn the rules first and then you know which ones you can safely break.

There are some drummers who just can’t keep up with a click though unfortunately… that’s the great thing with Beat Designer though… you only have to punch it into it once

and to work out why the tempo drifts on a recording listen to anything but the drummer. Good drummers follow emotional changes as well as keep the tempo from going totally wild. Vocalisits often push a chorus and guitarists push for the solo. The drummer works out where he needs to pull back or let go the reins somewhat. The times you’ll hear a drummer in trouble timewise is mostly because the music is played too loud and physically the drummer is unable to function properly and too many “musicians” think that good is loud but if you can’t hear your cues and executing rolls and riffs at double the volume and effort as at rehearsal just kills the music. Dead. Ask Iron Maiden if they play loud. No. The PA is loud. The band play at the volumes they rehearsed at and want to play at. Unlike most bog standard bands they do not get unintentionally louder in performance. Volume may seem OT but believe me, it matters.

Apologies for the part double post. Mix up and wrong button hit. Doh!

Gave me some horrific flashbacks ! Recently had a local hero in my studio. GREAT music and great ideas, but it was if the metronome was an ‘optional’ guide… grrrrr… I have never used audio-warp, time stretch or whatever you call it so much in my life ! Im getting credited on those productions for sure… night n day :laughing: