Large Drum Set project

I finished a project set up as a template that includes a large drum set (I called it Super Drum Set :no_mouth:), it seems to be working. I can’t find a way to include the ride bell hit, so I’m putting the project on here for anyone that might know a work around, if there is such a thing, and also for anyone that might find this of interest.
In any case, thanks for considering.
Large Drum Set.dorico (770.8 KB)

What’s the problem with the ride bell hit? Is the issue that you don’t know how to get it set up for the Ride cymbal instrument so that it appears as a playing technique, or that you don’t have a sound for it, or something else?

Can’t figure out how to set it up. I know the sound is there. I also want to add other sounds/instruments, like cowbell, snare roll, which again, I know they are available in the Halion samples.

Can you add all these sound individually to the Drum Player and from there (once you have determined they all sound) import them into the kit?

I don’t understand your problem. I downloaded your file, opened it, and your super drum set is on your channel 12, with the Yamaha XG percussion map. I opened that perc map, and the ride cymbal (Low) bell is there, at F3. So all you need to do is Edit your percussion set>Edit cymbal (low) instrument, create a new playing technique (Bell) with a notehead and that’s all…
I mean, all you really have to do is study the percussion map of the library you’re going to use (unless you need to create one, which is a process I know quite well, since I’ve already produced a few of those for instruments that were not ready to be used with Dorico)
Let me know if it’s not clear. For the record, I’ve added it on your file here.
Large Drum Set.dorico (887.6 KB)

OK. I looked at your example, saw your add on.
Then I added 2 cow bells using the “add new instrument” button in the percussion kit window and got the ride bell to work. Found out that so far, the low ride cymbal has a bell hit, not the high ride cymbal.
I apologize for my ignorance. Still trying to figure out what pieces I need to work on and how they each connect to one another, so the playback does what I want it to do.
Here’s my new version:
Large Drum Set.dorico (2.2 MB)

If I may… Cow bell and ride bell are two very different things. The first is a specific instrument (a cow bell… :person_shrugging:), the other is a specific hit on the ride.

Agreed, and I’ve been able to include them both in the percussion kit.
Can you see any reason why the switch between cowbells?

Sorry, I didn’t get it right. Are you sure there are two cow bells in the drum kit provided by HSSE (and described by the Yamaha XG percussion map)?
I’d say the instrument change you can use in the percussion map is suited to libraries like BBCSO where all instruments are set on the same MIDI keys, but a cc value changes them. It’s not how HSSE drum kit is built, so you shouldn’t need to attribute two different instruments to the same MIDI key.

So far, there are two cow bell sounds, though one has an higher open sound and the other has a lower muted sound. I’m still struggling to understand how the Halion sounds connect to the other parts of the program, so as to be able to manipulate them, e.g.: changing midi channels, etc.
When I open the percussion map window I always see the general midi map highlighted, even though I see in the Endpoint the Yamaha XG map. Don’t know if that’s of any consequence or not.
Sorry, I’m a mess with all the parts, still.
I know that when I added the second cow bell (high), a second instance of Halion popped up. Looking at the endpoint window I see channels 1 thru 4 with HSO Cowbell maps. Each cymbal has it’s own midi channel assignment with the Yamaha XG map. The drums are all in channel 12. I also see channels 11 & 15 that don’t have anything assigned to them, which I don’t understand why that is. Channels 13 & 14 were for two instruments I deleted.
I wish there were some kind of flow chart that shows how things flow and connect. Haven’t seem anything like that in the manual, so far.
Anyway, I appreciate the time and consideration you’re taking in this matter.

What I understand from what you’re describing is how Dorico applies the current playback template that is chosen (by default?). It means that you have not been tweaking anything manually, which is a good thing since it does work. But it’s not the more economic choices that are made: the cymbals are defined by the Yamaha XG percussion map, so they can play from the same instance as the other parts of the drum kit. It could be interesting to apply the same playback template now that all your instruments have been added, maybe Dorico would group all those instruments in the same instance of HSSE (at least, that would make sense to me).
Daniel Spreadbury has written a very interesting text about expression maps (or percussion maps), playback techniques and playing techniques, so that we can understand how this all works together. Once you know, it’s fairly easy. But not if you have to guess!

where would I find the text from Daniel?

I think Marc might be referring to this forum reply? (If not, it is still worth reading)

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Yes! Thanks @Janus , I looked for it but couldn’t find it. I translated it into French and made it available in the French-speaking fb group.

Thank you as well.

OK, I’ve read Daniel’s forum reply twice and could not find anything that answered my question: Why are the two cowbell sounds switched when playing back, even though in the percussion kit they show to be assigned “correctly”?

Here’s the project file:
Large Drum Set.dorico (2.2 MB)

Here are other questions:

Just created an empty project; added a player; imported the percussion drum kit I created in another project and wrote a simple drum part.
This time in play mode, I saw only one instance of Halion GM 129 drum sounds and the endpoint also shows one instance of the instrument.
Remind me again why it’s not possible to delete instances of Halion VSTs when not needed anymore?
I’m also wondering if there’s a way to add a playing technique for the snare ghost notes, instead of having to the parenthesis in the lower menu. Can that be done, or is it not worth doing?
Why is it that not all the sounds of the drum set created are playing as in the previous project?
Finally, and I know I’ve read this question before, how do you assign the sounds I chose in the percussion kit from Halion?
Here’s the project I just created:
Large Drum Set Sample.dorico (1.1 MB)
I’m hoping someone can help.
Continue to be quite confused and frustrated.
Thanks for reading at least.

I’ve just opened your file. I understand why you’re doing what you’re doing, but I’m sorry to say I feel you’re on a wrong path: when you study the Yamaha XG percussion map, there’s only one cowbell (and it’s triggered by Cow Bell (High) instrument, G#3 on the percussion map). You’ve set a cowbell instrument from HSO which is not part of the drum kit. That’s ok, but you cannot ask Dorico to notice that this sound is higher in pitch than the one from the kit that’s triggered by Cowbell (High). You could modify the percussion map so that the one from the kit is triggered by Cowbell (Low). Ok, I’ve just tried that, and it does not work, and I cannot figure out why. I simply don’t understand the logic of how you’ve built this file… Moving on to the next post

I open your last file, and there the VST rack makes kind of more sense, but there are still things I don’t understand. Have you created endpoints from the “source file”, in order to create a playback template so that your large kit is usable in other files? I so, this is something you should share…
Let me tell you why I think you’re on a wrong path here. It seems you have some instruments you want on notation, that’s the kit you’ve built on the former file (and you added a bitmap picture of it in the last file). But you don’t really have the sample set for it.
Unfortunately, libraries work the other way round. They give you access to a set of samples, which form a set of instruments. Most of the sounds of your large kit are present in the Yamaha XG kit. That should be the core of your instrument. Then you could add the missing pieces (that you’ve found in HSO). I don’t think you’d need more that one instance of HSSE to run a kit plus a cowbell, that’s why I get lost in your first document. I’ll try to build a simpler one if I get the time. Once it’s working, you should be able to save the Endpoint configuration, so that you can use it when you build up your playback template. And save your Large kit as a kit so that you can recall it in any other document. I’m sorry I’m writing this as I’m thinking, because I’m not sure I’ll have the time to make it happen — my second daughter was born one month ago and time is exactly what I don’t have right now :sweat_smile:
Playing a little bit further with your file — reapplying the HSSE+HSO playback template makes things really more “normal”.

Thank you for your reply. I will keep working on this.
In the meantime, congratulations on your new born. Time becomes a precious item in one’s life once with kids around. Enjoy them.