Layout bug (Dorico putting too much on the page)

[GeirSol]

Hi! This just seems like a layout bug to me.
Dorico is putting to much on the page.

[dan_kreider]

„Resolve the collision..” strange behavior

The problem here is that Dorico does not know exactly how much vertical space the music is going to occupy until it has cast it off, but it cannot know exactly how to cast it off until it knows the height of the music, so this is an inherently circular problem. When the 'Automatically resolve collisions between adjacent staves and systems’ option is on, then Dorico makes an estimate of what it thinks the height of the system(s) is likely to be prior to casting it off, so that it can decide when…

[Lillie_Harris]

Sometimes this can happen, due to the somewhat inherently circular nature of certain spacing calculations.

You can influence this by e.g. adding a frame break at the start of the second system or adjusting the layout’s vertical spacing settings.

[benwiggy]

If you’re only going to get 1 system per page anyway (which for a Symphony is likely), then I wouldn’t hide empty staves, as consistent positioning will be easier to read.

[GeirSol]

Ok. but I know a few other scoring apps that does this much better.
After all, Dorico knows pretty well how wrong it is when measuring it to 117,2%.

[dan_kreider]

Well, Ben is right here anyways.

[GeirSol]

That is maybe my practical solution. At this stage I just want something that shows the music ok tidy. Unfortunately Dorico does not deliver here.

I have more to learn about Doricos layout-system and settings. But so far there seems to be more sales claims than what’s true.

Btw: Showing all staves is not gonna work for me.

[benwiggy]

@GeirSol

I have more to learn about Doricos layout-system and settings. But so far there seems to be more sales claims than what’s true.

At worst, you have to add a Frame Break.

[Derrek]

@GeirSol

After all, Dorico knows pretty well how wrong it is when measuring it to 117,2%.

That can be solved by recursive programming, but few would be willing to put up with the much slower reaction time that would cause the program in everyday changes throughout a score.

[GeirSol]

Well, we all want speed. But here I suggest running page-layout back the loop with updated guessing (for the page in question). Up to 105% is usually ok. But over that it’s just gonna be a mess.
I’m not a programmer, so of course I don’t know the details

[GeirSol]

The issue with manual breaks and manual vertical adjustments is that it may not fit what comes the next week. Then there’s sorting out the mess again.
Of course that’s not a problem for final layout, but for everyone sharing mockups and temporary exports this is unwanted. We just want a decent auto setting.

[Derrek]

I think you overrate the difficulty of making changes in System Breaks, which is what we are talking about here.

[GeirSol]

System breaks, frame, breaks and vertical adjustment of systems.
It’s not hard to make, but makes every later change in prior content or formatting to possible create smaller or bigger layout-problems.

[Derrek]

That’s why saving layout tasks for last is recommended.

[PjotrB]

There are projects that get revised, expanded, reworked…

[GeirSol]

I need a 1000 pdf and image exports before final layout. I don’t need them to be perfect. But they need to be readable.
Not everyone work in a way or in a field that has that one final layout.

[k_b]

@GeirSol

I don’t need them to be perfect. But they need to be readable.

Geir, to chime in on this conversation, if you want something easy and readable, make sure only to show one system per Layout page - for the Score Layout. There is a setting in the Layout Options “casting off”.
Then even a 1000 page .pdf will work extremely fast in generation and output.

[GeirSol]

Thanks! Nice tip!