Ledger Lines not hidden in a staff with a cue in it

Hi Geniuses,

So I have a part (trombone) that has a fall, and I didn’t want the note, stem, or ledger lines at the end of the fall. I succeeded in hiding all of these - (by the way, is there an easier way than having to select first notes, then stems, then have to toggle back and forth between engrave and write modes to hide them?)

But in the piano part, I have placed the trombone cue in the treble clef, and the ledger lines are still there. How can I hide these also? Screenshot below.

Related question: in the sax part I don’t want the bass cues to be in bass clef for the sax to read. I want them to be in treble clef, even if they have to be 15ba or whatever. Any way to change the clef in a cue?

Thank you so much!

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Instead of using a glissando line, you could instead use a fall jazz articulation that doesn’t require a destination note? You can graphically lengthen them in Engrave mode if necessary.

Off the top of my head (so I may be wrong about this!):

  1. Ensure that the the hidden ledger line property is set globally, not locally (the text of the property will be bold if it’s set globally).
  2. In Engrave mode, in the piano layout, grab the hidden notehead and set the property again.

There’s an octave shift property for cues, which should cover the other question.

OMG brilliant as usual, but I want the fall to begin exactly on beat 1 of that second bar, and I notice the fall articulation, visually, implies the note is held, then falls…

but I didn’t even know about the jazz articulations - yikes thank you. I can use that in other scores a ton.

There are different types of falls - one of them does indeed have a curved line, but there are others with straight lines, either plain or wiggly. Take a look in the Ornaments panel in Write mode for the most suitable one for you.

All these work! I really need to get my globally and locally together, I never check which is active. Also the cue octave and clef shift, thanks so much for that.

And the ornaments panel. I’m just so used to Sibelius and not being able to draw them out, etc., I just assume it’s not possible in Dorico, an obvious mistake every time. One last question if I may - when I do place my chosen articulation and try and draw it out in Engrave, I want to have it end just at the end of the bar, visually, but Dorico keeps lengthening the bar on me. Is that normal? I’m trying to be careful but I get like halfway through the bar extending the articulation and boom, the bar lengthens. Rather Sisyphusian I have to say. Will it just keep extending forever…?

Ah yes, that’s true - Dorico does adjust note spacing around jazz articulations.

You may instead prefer to use a generic wiggly line and input it attached to the notehead at the start but a rhythmic position at the end, and move it graphically in Engrave mode. I don’t think that will affect note spacing.

Right, that’s what I had originally with the ledger line problem. I can go back to that - time consuming but I can get what I want now that I know how to do it.

I do wonder why the note spacing changes if you want to have an articulation. Further to this - I discovered that Dorico does not widen the bar if I only change the X axis. But as soon as I change the y axis for the fall to go downward, the staff suddenly widens. Very odd I think, though there’s probably a reason. Maybe Daniel can take a break from his super easy schedule and explain.

OK well thank you again for all the good info.

With your original problem - were you using a glissando line, or a generic line? The latter shouldn’t need an end note and therefore should avoid the ledge line issue. Although, apologies I should have remembered, generic lines don’t currently appear in cues. Sorry for the merry-go-round!

Spacing adjusts around jazz articulations because Dorico knows they’re supposed to stop before adjacent notes, and performs automatic collision avoidance. This also happens vertically like it does when notes go way above/below the staff - the next staff up/down is moved further away to avoid overlaps.

No apology necessary, thank you for the generous giving of your time and expertise!

Glissando. The generic lines are just horizontal, as far as I can tell. you can’t drag them to be diagonal or whatever, unless I am missing something, which is alway probable. That’s ONE thing you could do in Sibelius that I pine for. I would love to make an arrow that could be on a diagonal…

Oh I see about the spacing. But after the first quarter note there are no other notes in the bar to collide with (?)…

“Horizontal” lines can be diagonal by default if they’re notehead-attached at both ends and the notes aren’t the same pitch or on the same staff belonging to the same instrument (see the cross-staff lines on that linked page). Like all other notations, they also have handles in Engrave mode that allow for graphical adjustments.

Yes, but nonetheless Dorico knows fundamentally where things “should” be and accommodate them.

I see. OK thank you!