Limitations of MIDI CC Transformations Using Input Transformers

Hello everyone,

I’m working on setting up my MIDI configuration in Cubase and face a limitation that I hope to find some solutions for. I want to transform multiple CC messages to other values within my Cubase tracks, and I identified that MIDI inserts with transformers could be a potential solution.

However, I’ve noticed that I can only use up to four transformers per track due to the limited slots in MIDI inserts. Since each transformer seems to allow only one transformation from one CC to another, this effectively limits me to transforming up to four different CC messages per track.

Am I understanding the capabilities of the transformers correctly? Is each transformer indeed limited to just one operation, or is there a way to configure a single transformer to handle multiple CC message transformations?

I would really appreciate any guidance on how to manage multiple CC transformations more efficiently within Cubase, or if there’s something I’m missing about how transformers can be used.

Thank you !

Hi,

You understand it correctly. You can also use 4 modules of the MIDI Input Transformer.

Yes, but you can create multiple MIDI Tracks, each with its own 4 Transformers, and route them all to the same destination.

Hi @raino ,

Thank you for your suggestion. I’ve tried it , but it seems it doesn’t fit my use case.
Although your method allows for up to four transformations per MIDI clip, my setup involves a MIDI keyboard with about 12 different MIDI notes that need transforming. Following your advice, I would end up with three separate MIDI tracks, each handling four transformations.

Let’s simplify the example: Suppose I want to transform the notes A4 to G4 to make them A0 to G0, leaving all other MIDI notes unchanged. The issue arises when I route these three MIDI tracks to a single instrument, say a Kontakt instrument, which I plan to play live.

The main problem is managing the simultaneous transformations live. If I press A4, one MIDI track will convert it to A0, but the other two MIDI tracks will still output A4 because their transformations are set for other notes. So, even though one MIDI track correctly transforms the note, the others continue to output the original note, which isn’t the desired result.

Additionally, since all three MIDI tracks are active, the notes that aren’t transformed will be played three times over, effectively tripling the volume in the instrument. I confirmed this in practice, and the volume becomes much louder.

Unless I’ve overlooked something, this setup doesn’t seem ideal for live play, especially when trying to manage multiple transformations dynamically.

P.S. Just for clarity, in my explanation above I mentioned needing three tracks, but that was to simplify the discussion by omitting details about note-offs. In reality, I would need six tracks to also handle the note-off messages for each transformation. This detail isn’t central to our main discussion but thought it’s worth mentioning to explain why I initially said three tracks instead of six.

Maybe you could give a specific example, there might be other ways to get it done.

Or, show us the Insert Transformer Preset you created. It would be helpful to understand better.

Yes, it’s hard to offer alternative approaches without knowing the goal.

For this task I’d use a Drum Map - they’re useful for non-drum stuff too. Then you’d only need one Track.

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Hi @steve,

Thank you for your reply. Here is a detailed explanation of my situation and what I aim to achieve.

The idea behind this is to use the pads of my controller to be mapped from all the notes from C-2 to B0. The pads on my controller are not ordered, which is why I need this full remapping. Although I initially mentioned needing only 12 remappings, my final goal is to completely remap the controller, which involves all its 36 MIDI notes (in total 72: 36 NoteON and 36 NoteOFF).

Explanation of Nomenclature:

The following nomenclature is used in the list of transformations to indicate what I am transforming:

  • NOTEON or NOTEOFF indicates whether the MIDI message is a note-on or note-off event.
  • C-1/CH13 indicates the note C in octave -1 on channel 13. (Example)
  • TO C-2/CH1 indicates the transformation to note C in octave -2 on channel 1. (Example)

List of Transformations:

These are the transformations I want to apply. To read it, you can follow the nomenclature explained above.
(Each line correpsond to a single transformation)

My controller doesn’t allow for easy remapping through its software, so my only option is to intercept and change the incoming MIDI messages, which is what I’m trying to do.

Final Decision:

Never mind, I will go with a third-party Bome MIDI Translator editor as it might solve my issue more effciently. I think Cubase can’t solve this directly.

Thank you for your help.

Stepping back a bit - when we’re asking what you are trying to accomplish, that’s a fairly high level question about the goal you want to achieve. But when reading your last post, it is more a detailed description of how you want to achieve the goal - the nuts & bolts of implementation.

We’re asking about the goal because we (speaking for Steve too, and why not) suspect you are making something more complicated than it needs to be. But we can’t really tell because we don’t know what you are trying to accomplish.

Reading between the lines it sounds like you have a Pad Controller with 36 Pads. Probably arranged in a 6x6 grid?

I’ve no idea what you mean by this. Typically a Pad Controller would have the upper left Pad assigned to MIDI Note# 0 (C-2) and the lower right Pad to MIDI Note# 35 (B0). And pressing a Pad generates a Note-On message & releasing a Note-Off.

How does your Controller differ from this?

Also does your Controller have a brandname? Maybe someone’s already built what you need. Folks here tend to share

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Hi @raino,

Thanks for answering! To address your points directly:

  1. Controller Mapping Goals:
    I want to reassign the MIDI notes on my Xone K2 controller. It’s not set up in a traditional 6x6 grid as you suggested—instead, it’s somewhat irregular, which complicates things for my use.
  2. Order of Pads:
    You mentioned typical Pad Controllers have an orderly assignment from C-2 upwards. Mine differs in that the initial assignment is not in any fully logical order , thus the need to remap them completely.

Here are the initial and desired mappings visually:


To clarify further, the initial bottom line goes from C-1 to D#-1, but then the second line above it jumps to C0 instead of continuing from D#-1. This pattern indicates that a simple pitch transposition won’t work, thus necessitating a complete reassignment of notes. This loops back to my initial point about the limitations with MIDI CC transformations in Cubase for this specific use case, leading me to use Bome MIDI Translator for this purpose as it’s not easily achievable within Cubase.

Of course, I’ve looked into whether anyone in the forum has remapped this controller, but as far as I know no one has shared anything directly similar to my specific remapping for the Xone K2.

OK.

How do the hardware knobs behave? With the buttons, they only have 2 states so they map to Note On & Off. But the knobs are multi state. When you turn the knob marked “C2” what MIDI Messages is it actually generating? I wouldn’t expect it to be a bunch of C2 Note On & Off messages which could then be converted into E0 Note Messages.

Ignoring the knobs behavior, why won’t Drum Maps work for remapping your buttons? Remapping is their core function. And if by chance your knobs really are spitting out multiple MIDI Note Messages when turned, then a Drum Map will remap those too.

Which is precisely why you should let folks know you posses an Xone K2 - no one’s going to think to help otherwise. Just took a peek at it, looks like a cool piece of kit. How do the knobs & faders feel in use? Seems like a good match for the Control Room’s headphone mixes.

Having just spent some time with the Xone manual I see that there is also button next to the knob - so everything marked is a button and none knobs. Which makes a lot more sense.

Since all the messages are for Note On/Off, the simplest solution is to use a Drum Map.

It also looks ripe for MIDI Remote if you are on a version that has it.

Hi @raino ,

First , thanks so much for offering help, I really appreciated!

To clarify a bit about the knobs and buttons: not all of them function as dual push encoders. I highlighted the ones that do in the image from my previous post. These specific knobs can act as both push buttons (sending Note On/Off messages) and encoders (CCs messages). The main focus of my initial inquiry was to find a way to remap these Note On/Off messages, which is why I didn’t mention the encoder CC messages at that point.

Regarding how the Xone K2 feels, the encoders are definitely the best feature for me—they have a really satisfying feel when rotated, precise and smooth. The faders are okay but feel a bit loose; they don’t have as much resistance as I’d like. The buttons are just standard, nothing particularly special about them.

And thanks for suggesting the use of a Drum Map. I actually ended up using Bome MIDI Translator for the remapping as you already know, which solved the issue perfectly. Still, I’m curious about Drum Maps and might check it out just to see what else I can achieve with them.

Hope you have a great weekend.

For non-drum stuff they let you do a couple of useful things.

Being able to freely remap Notes lets you do interesting things. Besides a one-to-one remap like you’re doing, you can also do many-to-one. So you can trigger the same snare from several different keys. I once remapped all the white keys so they were arranged like a Kalimba where adjacent keys are a third apart.

Another useful feature is it lets you label things. In the Drum Editor the names in your Drum Map of course show up as the drum names in the left column. But in the Key Editor they will appear on the Notes themselves when zoomed in. I use this a lot on Sampler Tracks where different Notes trigger different Samples. So, for example, the Note Names could be “meow”, “door slam” & “wind” instead of C3, C#3, D3.