Originally a long-term ProTools user , then Logic 10 . Many years before that my 1st DAW was Cubase 0.9 (I think) , I even met Mark badger when he was showing Cubase audio v1, Then logic and ProTools, running side-by-side, then just Logic 10
I found myself very happy in Logic the last 10 years , until the other day dealing with 500 odd tracks and finding it hard to navigate.
I’m composing the music on a film and what’s changed for me is the M1 laptop is so fast decided to do the score reel by reel , rather than my normal style of grouping music cues in to style to keep cpu load down etc or certain cues would have a separate project/song for the real large action stuff . But this is a pain when mixing down at the end!!
My MacBook doesn’t seem to mind having 500 odd Kontakt running , 64gb seems to be my only limitation.
I know about the power of cubase for composing , and did a good day watching YouTube on v12 , downloaded the trial and made a start I know there are so many powerful functions in cubase so this isn’t a (Logics better rant) , I am just wondering if after I get going in cubase my below concerns will vanish away :). And maybe Cubase is just much better.
I would love to here from a Logic Convert on this , I would also say my early CPU tests seems that Cubase can play back even more Kontakts ! Which is amazing
My first concerns coming from Logic are ….
No stack folders , creating a folder for the midi/audio then creating a group to sum the audio for tracking in that folder seems hard work, and as the mixer doesn’t follow I can see that being a mess!
Track automation seems to also create its own track underneath. Not on top of Mid or Audio . Does this create lots of mess
No Region/Clipped based automation , I use this a lot to save any lost of miss copied automation. But maybe Cubase is good at this ?
In Logic I create stack tracks , and can just drag any track in there and it automatically gets assign to that stack Buss. Folding down the stack mixer follows. Very clean look
Pinch zoom as a max user this is 2nd nature , and I can’t find a key press which switches the select tool into a magnifying glass tool (holding a key temporarily)
Not being able to leave the GUI open while selecting different tracks to see the many For virtual instruments.
Multiple selection, in logic, anything you select more than one of you will be altering both or all selected volume faders ,send level etc , even plug inserts and adding sends
When working with staff tracks which I do to contain everything in a stem for delivery. I also have effects returns within the stack, so each that has its own reverb and delay … etc , I’ve worked out how to route through a group, but I don’t seem to be able to route the output of an affect inside that group , is there a way round this or is it not needed as when you finally bounce in Cubase, you can bounce including effects returns?
Lastly I am missing the intelligent right click , but again that could just be because I am used to Logic
Sorry, I’m not sure, I get this one. You can route the Group Channel the very same way as an Audio track. So you can use an output (to route it to an Output Bus or another Group Channel) or you can use the Sends. You can also use the Direct Routing.
I have Logic as well, but mainly use it for composing new songs…I have never actually mixed with Logic, so keep that in mind. But, I have been using Cubase since the “VST 3.6” days - so 20-some years.
Yes - good observation. Cubase’s folder is simply a visual organizational tool. While not as immediate as Logic, is more flexible as it doesn’t route audio from its original destination automatically.
Another “To-maa-toe”, “To-mah-toe” situation. In one sense, I wish Cubase did do that, but when you need to dig in, all automation lanes are separate lanes.
Again - nice feature but you can enable Cubase to encapsulate automation items with the clip. So, if you copy the clip, you copy the automation.
Along the lines of item 1. Cubase is “more flexible” by default.
Huh…I’m not familiar with the feature in Logic. To zoom vertically in Cubase, either key commands G or H (out and in), or scroll wheel (if you have one). Horizontal zoom is Command+Scroll, I believe. There is no key command for Horizontal zoom, by default.
I’m not sure what you mean, here.
Q-Link - again, flexible, depending on perspective. But, when it comes to clips on the timeline, if you CMD+Çlick multiple clips, things like length, clip gain, clip fades all take place.
Hmmm…a Group in Cubase is analogous to a buss on a traditional mixer. Any effect IN a group is an Insert. No, you can’t route the insert out of the group individually. You can route the Group to another Group…or stand as an audio source for an Audio track, but the Insert’s audio passes through the Group to its output. Looking at your use in Logic, I would suggest FX channels (to which you send signal from other tracks as Sends) and perhaps stem your FX channels as individual files.
By default, right clicking will bring up a tool bar. This can be changed to a dialog menu…which I prefer. Honestly, I never liked Logic’s right-click paradigm.
I swapped from Logic to Cubase 9 and track stacks are still massive miss for me. To the point where I see no point in using folders. But then i’m not doing any kind of scoring/orchestra type work where I may have many redundant instruments needing to be tucked away, or rows of MIDI tracks that I need to mute as one.
Coming from Logic I always consider a folder to be a bus for those contained channels so would use them constantly, you could even assign quick (smart?) controls on a folder level which was brilliant for layered instrument folders.
In terms of reducing clutter within Cubase, I use channel visibility presets to organise what I want to see, or channel visibilty agents to show only channels with content between the locators or current cursor position.
The only other real miss I have from Logic are the stock compressors. So if you’re using those currently, try the stock compressors in Cubase and see what you think - not a fan.
I will check the Dynamics in Cubase next week and let you know , I have to say so far I love the built in channel strip Eq/DYN, Drive etc really cool in Cubase , but I haven’t mixed anything at this point .
The main reason I am/ have moved to Cubase is the “show only channels with content between the locators”. this is simply epic . I cant really use visibility Presets , as I tend to add and remove instruments fast and forget to keep things updated .
Logic stack tracks can be summing or not , and you also have the option to just use Aux’s for summing (like cubase and ProTools). all great ways to work , if you use hardware (fader) surface the only way that make sense of a project is if the mixer mirrors the edit window or its very hard to follow. I used the summing stacks for most things , also your fx returns can have there output routed within the stack master see below . its really handy. Maybe one day in Cubase
But day to day stuff I believe intelligent folder tracks are the way forward for most people , or at least basic work flow, once you have used them it’s hard to go back. It’s a system design ground up for virtual environments, removing the need for busses / VCA‘s / groups which all came from the days of hardware mixes . (Its a bit like the days before Instrument tracks , we had a Midi track for notes and Aux track for the Instruments and then had to route midi in / out and audio in / out which also created 2 tracks for one Instrument )
Having a track in the mixer that controls your folder tracks in the edit window would be a great option for Cubase . I wouldn’t remove whats there now which is way more flexible.
In MY humble opinion…you’re gonna be hitting yourself in the face with a bag of hurt for a while with its interface vs Logic.
Cubase seems to be moving into the “REAPER” level of difficulty and I hope Steinberg reels this in. Logic’s interface CAN seem “basic” at times…but it’s very quick and it’s intuitive in a LOT of ways.
I remember this guy coming to my studio YEARS ago before I switched to Logic and was running version 6. He was SUPER IMPRESSED with what I was able to accomplish and for some odd reason just went out and bought it!
He never even got the audio connections to work and just gave up! Now, that’s kinda a moron move in my opinion…but I get EXACTLY what happened. Cubase is not at all fun or intuitive to use. Once you know the interface that gets better…but not until then.
The Inspector: MILES worse than in LOGIC. I have no clue why they keep adding features and not fixing that. Supposedly there is some work being done…but I assure you it won’t be free.
The Interface: Tiny little icons are all OVER the place and you really have no clue what they do until you hover over them. Again…you learn over time…but it’s not friendly.
The effects: Now I’m gonna go against the grain here and say that Cubase has the better effects by a LONG shot. Logic has a decent compressor…but everything else is old DSP code from the 80’s.
The audio engine: Cubase is better here. I’m not talking here about sound quality. I’m talking about a generation 3 audio engine (Logic) vs a generation 5 audio engine (Cubase). Why you ask? For example…if you are on an audio track and want to record a vocal…you have to first ARM the track. If you don’t, the engine is gonna stutter.
With Cubase you can just hit record while the song is playing and no stutter. No needing to ARM or DISARM tracks unless you want to.
OR how about this…there are some things that you literally have to STOP the playback to change plugins and stuff like that. Cubase didn’t require that. How about the audio engine lag in logic? Like you delete an audio clip and it still plays for like a second! It drives me nuts because clearly they are doing things to get better performance at the cost of the program feeling SUPER sloppy.
Even though i’m not a fan of the stock compressors, mixing as a whole in Cubase has yielded FAR better results than any other DAW that i’ve used - even with using the built-in channel strips.
So, I really don’t think you’ll be dissapointed on that front as an overall result. I couldn’t go back to Logic now, there’s simply far too much stuff i’d miss from Cubase. Variaudio and the chord track integration I really adore, it’s a very solid foundation for compositions.
This video is an absolute must to learn some great mixer tips, if you’ve never seen it before. :
Great post . I agree with this all 100% I LOL as some of it sort on … could have said it better …
BUT to anyone out there , I have now bought Cubase 12 and Love it .! The Learning curve is incredibly state, if anyone’s ever tried to learn to snowboard it’s as difficult as that in the early stages and then it just gets better …
the way I was able to jump in a go was Youtube and this forum , if it was the old days of a paper manual no chance .!!
The zoom feature in Logic that he is referring to is something I have been looking for as well. In Logic, you can assign the zoom tool to a command key. So, all you have to do is hold down command and your cursor turns into a zoom tool and you can select a region to zoom into. Once you release the command key, it automatically returns to the normal cursor. It is very handy and something I wish I could get Cubase to do as well.