Loopback? Are you guys aware that Steinberg created ASIO? Yet, cannot get it to fully function?

TLDR: Steinberg AXR4U Rant / Working with this outside of their drivers 100% better. - YouTube

I was fed up with all the BS, very happy with the team that works on these things. Things being ASIO functioning properly. And ASIO taking advantage of all that it is capable of. It’s unbelievable that ASIO is capable of SO much more and the company that makes it fails at it.

ASIO sharing NEEDS to be a standard.
Loopback doesn’t even need to exist. Just allow for the matrix routing to be able to route anything to anything, period.

Many other things I just don’t have the energy to type right now, you guys have robbed me enough for that.

So here’s my video showing what ASIO is capable of. Routing anything to anything making Loopback obsolete. It’s just sad that all this needed functionality can’t be done by the company that invented ASIO lol. It’s like if you went to a burger place and they forgot how to make meat.

Life Staples for ASIO on Windows:

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Jack is terrible on windows. Overly complicated and has a lot of issues configuring the server matching settings and incompatibilities. That was too much hassle and I abandon it. ASIO4ALL should be removed from the internet and the internet achieves. ASIO link pro :smiling_face_with_three_hearts: Seriously, how can ASIO link dominate Steinberg at something they invented.

Main reason I mention this one is because ASIOLink Pro isn’t supported anymore as far as I know. It works great now, but will Windows 11 and beyond eventually ‘break’ it? Jack is maintained, updated on a pretty regular basis, and is open-source.

Not my favorite to set-up (ASIOLink Pro was just easier, and rock solid on my hardware), but it DOES WORK, and it’s not hard really. Set it up well, and it purrs…allowing the routing possibilities between ASIO apps on the same machine. I’ve noticed the GUI is MUCH better now than it was years ago when I first tried it.

Why? For me, it outperforms any of the other simple WDM > ASIO bridges I’ve tried so far (including the one that ships with Steinberg hosts), and quite a lot of people use ASIO hosts on machines with devices that do not have native ASIO drivers. It’s actually configurable, and allows aggregating inputs. Could use it to aggregate outputs as well, but not advisable unless you have a way to match things to use the same clock.

Good question, but it is what it is. Part of the reason they don’t open it up in terms of aggregating multiple devices, is the clock problem. Technically, it’s against the protocol rules to aggregate multiple audio cards that are not designed to share a common clock, and ship with drivers and such to set it all up properly. Cards that can do this ship with drivers that typically are limited to specific models or chip-sets that are designed to sync-up and work together.

If every joe out there starts trying to aggregate audio cards, all on their own clocks, without understanding the potential pitfalls (and jumping through unsupported/unofficial hoops)…people will COMPLAIN that their outputs aren’t in sync and ‘drift apart’. So, it’s up to device makers to ship drivers with the features they intend to support. If a device isn’t designed to slave to external clocks, or share clocks…then the ‘system’ is not going to work properly (the devices will get out of sync over time).

In the windows world, what would you recommend that’s better than ASIO? Cards do exist that can aggregate properly, and they tend ship with good drivers that hook into ASIO properly. A few cards can be locked to an external clock of some kind and share it (via special coax ports, or light-pipe ports, etc.) There’s also the option to just replace the ‘multiple-card’ layout with a single device that has the required number of inputs/outputs. There’s also the option to use hard analog patch chords (introduces an analogue stage that might not be so great, but it’d work for basic home studio people on a budget).

As for a given Steinberg branded audio interface, and whatever ‘loopback’ feature you’re about…I do understand your disappointment if it’s not doing what you purchased it to do. Still…the question comes to mind…what card in the same class and price-range fits your requirements?

I’m not aware of any/many that allow aggregating different makes/brands/models of audio interfaces ‘out of the box’. It’s going to require hacks if the cards were not designed to go together, and include the drivers to do it.

If I reply to everyone of your replies this is gonna get long and messy I feel lol. So let me just touch on them a bit. Coz honestly we’re just running our wheels on this one so to say.

ASIO link isn’t supported because the dude passed :frowning: However, I saw reports of it not working on 11 so I held off on upgrading. My buddy tho, he’s a techy also and wanted to test it on 11 and worked for him. I’ll be upgrading soon, like maybe Jan IDK.

ASIO4ALL has always been a bad experience for me and others I have observed. No reason to really even talk on this more lol. (imo).

Now, this last one about ASIO and windows aggregate etc. See, this is where I have some major issues. As the music production industry is just not where it should be and I have some very strong opinions on this due to my many years in game development. Where the technology advancements are a pretty global thing for the most part and they have systems in place to bring the next generation up hungry and ready to push even harder.

The problem as I see it, is a great deal of gatekeeping and stubbornness to adapt and evolve. Combined with hardware manufactures not pushing each other to compete and drive the industry. So, all of this tech is just behind. It’s very rare for the audio world to get together to try to raise the next generation, but really it’s the exact opposite. Combined with bickering about what bad tech is better than the other bad tech, while holding themselves back from driving an entire industry.

I have a feeling that there’s a huge fear of becoming obsolete due to technology because so many are very comfortable. Where as in the tech industry in general you learn, you adapt and then evolve to do hard things simpler but then allowing you to do newer harder things.

Bleh just kinda ranting now and I don’t think I can fully get all of my points out right now without further ranting.

But one last thing, as to what fit my requirements. All other interfaces I have used function in a way that you are able to utilize loopback to send audio from the ASIO environment into another application outside of it. For example from a DAW to a capture device. This is part of what is broken in their drivers but they say it is working as intended.

I don’t disagree, and I feel your pain, but I use really old and considerably cheaper hardware. I rarely ever sample above 48khz. If I were to pump big money into a new interface, I think I’d be mostly interested in the type/sound/quality of the preamps and stuff on board…or opt for a ‘mostly dumb’ interface that just has connections for selecting and plugging in my own choice of preamps.

Within the Stienberg Ecosystem I suppose there is Steinberg’s own VSTLink (Even Dorico doesn’t support this yet, ouch)?

Can probably chain a bunch of those AXR units together as you like, and get things anywhere you want if everything you’ll be using in the system is Cubendo and/or VSTlink based (Again, no such luck with Dorico, yet)?

Aggregating multiple audio interfaces aside (forget that problem for now)…Until I discovered ASIOLink Pro, In my piddling home studio that little free reStream plugin usually fit the bill ‘if’ the apps could host a plugin. Jitter control and clock stuff is done in software…streamed across network protocols.

I too have often wondered why a DAW like Cubase doesn’t have something kind of like ASIOLink built into the routing matrix. A way to pipe audio among apps (both ASIO and otherwise). Even if it can’t aggregate multiple devices…it’d sure be nice to be able to route the stuff that IS on the right clock in and out of the DAW at will.

With my old Delta 1010, there is a ‘no latency monitor’ feed that can be useful for getting other apps into the DAW mixing desk, but it’s a ‘mix’ of everything coming into the card that needs to be managed from the driver control panel…far from ideal.

Perhaps there are both technical, and legal reasons why this isn’t standard. So…here we are, hard patching, or using hacks like ASIOLink Pro, Jack, or really expensive enterprise networking drivers to hack it all together. Whatever the reasons are…it is what it is.

JACK actually looked REALLY promising to me. Especially because Bitwig has native support for it. It is a bit funny though because they do not support rewire where-as Reaper has native support for it lol and Ableton supports it, but not officially anymore.

And then… as I type this I just have to laugh at all these stupid, annoying, and very frustrating “work-arounds” for functionality that exists within ASIO right now. Yet, we have papa bearberg over here completely abandoning any evolution or higher usage of the technology.

You want to know a very similar tech but of which has the opposite stance? NDI It is a audio and video transport technology and they constantly push the boundaries of what the tech can do by making it accessible to everyone, everywhere and on everything possible. They want their tech working flawlessly everywhere… not just in their enclosed system where they ignore the tech potential.

Now, with that in mind here’s another shitty example of how the music industry is so behind. Look at midi lol… this is a horrible technology that has been allowed to exist for so long. It’s so limited. Then we have midi 2.0 coming out, finally, but there’s zero focus on speed, throughput, and/or latency. There are many challenges here, but generally speaking in the tech world, they push forward and you adapt or get left behind because a few things being left behind vs an evolutionary craw, evolution should be the main goal and focus.

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lol wow something I totally forgot about because of how bad ASIO is… errr was… all of this year and last year I spent a lot of time in disappointment due to not being able to use certain hardware in ASIO mode because then I couldn’t use my interface lol.

I just plugged in my RYTM MKII and realized I can now use it in ASIO mode. Because I can now share ASIO drivers between apps. It’s just embarrassing that Steinberg cannot do these things with their own tech.