Loopback? Are you guys aware that Steinberg created ASIO? Yet, cannot get it to fully function?

TLDR: Steinberg AXR4U Rant / Working with this outside of their drivers 100% better. - YouTube

I was fed up with all the BS, very happy with the team that works on these things. Things being ASIO functioning properly. And ASIO taking advantage of all that it is capable of. It’s unbelievable that ASIO is capable of SO much more and the company that makes it fails at it.

ASIO sharing NEEDS to be a standard.
Loopback doesn’t even need to exist. Just allow for the matrix routing to be able to route anything to anything, period.

Many other things I just don’t have the energy to type right now, you guys have robbed me enough for that.

So here’s my video showing what ASIO is capable of. Routing anything to anything making Loopback obsolete. It’s just sad that all this needed functionality can’t be done by the company that invented ASIO lol. It’s like if you went to a burger place and they forgot how to make meat.

Life Staples for ASIO on Windows:

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Jack is terrible on windows. Overly complicated and has a lot of issues configuring the server matching settings and incompatibilities. That was too much hassle and I abandon it. ASIO4ALL should be removed from the internet and the internet achieves. ASIO link pro :smiling_face_with_three_hearts: Seriously, how can ASIO link dominate Steinberg at something they invented.

Main reason I mention this one is because ASIOLink Pro isn’t supported anymore as far as I know. It works great now, but will Windows 11 and beyond eventually ‘break’ it? Jack is maintained, updated on a pretty regular basis, and is open-source.

Not my favorite to set-up (ASIOLink Pro was just easier, and rock solid on my hardware), but it DOES WORK, and it’s not hard really. Set it up well, and it purrs…allowing the routing possibilities between ASIO apps on the same machine. I’ve noticed the GUI is MUCH better now than it was years ago when I first tried it.

Why? For me, it outperforms any of the other simple WDM > ASIO bridges I’ve tried so far (including the one that ships with Steinberg hosts), and quite a lot of people use ASIO hosts on machines with devices that do not have native ASIO drivers. It’s actually configurable, and allows aggregating inputs. Could use it to aggregate outputs as well, but not advisable unless you have a way to match things to use the same clock.

Good question, but it is what it is. Part of the reason they don’t open it up in terms of aggregating multiple devices, is the clock problem. Technically, it’s against the protocol rules to aggregate multiple audio cards that are not designed to share a common clock, and ship with drivers and such to set it all up properly. Cards that can do this ship with drivers that typically are limited to specific models or chip-sets that are designed to sync-up and work together.

If every joe out there starts trying to aggregate audio cards, all on their own clocks, without understanding the potential pitfalls (and jumping through unsupported/unofficial hoops)…people will COMPLAIN that their outputs aren’t in sync and ‘drift apart’. So, it’s up to device makers to ship drivers with the features they intend to support. If a device isn’t designed to slave to external clocks, or share clocks…then the ‘system’ is not going to work properly (the devices will get out of sync over time).

In the windows world, what would you recommend that’s better than ASIO? Cards do exist that can aggregate properly, and they tend ship with good drivers that hook into ASIO properly. A few cards can be locked to an external clock of some kind and share it (via special coax ports, or light-pipe ports, etc.) There’s also the option to just replace the ‘multiple-card’ layout with a single device that has the required number of inputs/outputs. There’s also the option to use hard analog patch chords (introduces an analogue stage that might not be so great, but it’d work for basic home studio people on a budget).

As for a given Steinberg branded audio interface, and whatever ‘loopback’ feature you’re about…I do understand your disappointment if it’s not doing what you purchased it to do. Still…the question comes to mind…what card in the same class and price-range fits your requirements?

I’m not aware of any/many that allow aggregating different makes/brands/models of audio interfaces ‘out of the box’. It’s going to require hacks if the cards were not designed to go together, and include the drivers to do it.

If I reply to everyone of your replies this is gonna get long and messy I feel lol. So let me just touch on them a bit. Coz honestly we’re just running our wheels on this one so to say.

ASIO link isn’t supported because the dude passed :frowning: However, I saw reports of it not working on 11 so I held off on upgrading. My buddy tho, he’s a techy also and wanted to test it on 11 and worked for him. I’ll be upgrading soon, like maybe Jan IDK.

ASIO4ALL has always been a bad experience for me and others I have observed. No reason to really even talk on this more lol. (imo).

Now, this last one about ASIO and windows aggregate etc. See, this is where I have some major issues. As the music production industry is just not where it should be and I have some very strong opinions on this due to my many years in game development. Where the technology advancements are a pretty global thing for the most part and they have systems in place to bring the next generation up hungry and ready to push even harder.

The problem as I see it, is a great deal of gatekeeping and stubbornness to adapt and evolve. Combined with hardware manufactures not pushing each other to compete and drive the industry. So, all of this tech is just behind. It’s very rare for the audio world to get together to try to raise the next generation, but really it’s the exact opposite. Combined with bickering about what bad tech is better than the other bad tech, while holding themselves back from driving an entire industry.

I have a feeling that there’s a huge fear of becoming obsolete due to technology because so many are very comfortable. Where as in the tech industry in general you learn, you adapt and then evolve to do hard things simpler but then allowing you to do newer harder things.

Bleh just kinda ranting now and I don’t think I can fully get all of my points out right now without further ranting.

But one last thing, as to what fit my requirements. All other interfaces I have used function in a way that you are able to utilize loopback to send audio from the ASIO environment into another application outside of it. For example from a DAW to a capture device. This is part of what is broken in their drivers but they say it is working as intended.

I don’t disagree, and I feel your pain, but I use really old and considerably cheaper hardware. I rarely ever sample above 48khz. If I were to pump big money into a new interface, I think I’d be mostly interested in the type/sound/quality of the preamps and stuff on board…or opt for a ‘mostly dumb’ interface that just has connections for selecting and plugging in my own choice of preamps.

Within the Stienberg Ecosystem I suppose there is Steinberg’s own VSTLink (Even Dorico doesn’t support this yet, ouch)?

Can probably chain a bunch of those AXR units together as you like, and get things anywhere you want if everything you’ll be using in the system is Cubendo and/or VSTlink based (Again, no such luck with Dorico, yet)?

Aggregating multiple audio interfaces aside (forget that problem for now)…Until I discovered ASIOLink Pro, In my piddling home studio that little free reStream plugin usually fit the bill ‘if’ the apps could host a plugin. Jitter control and clock stuff is done in software…streamed across network protocols.

I too have often wondered why a DAW like Cubase doesn’t have something kind of like ASIOLink built into the routing matrix. A way to pipe audio among apps (both ASIO and otherwise). Even if it can’t aggregate multiple devices…it’d sure be nice to be able to route the stuff that IS on the right clock in and out of the DAW at will.

With my old Delta 1010, there is a ‘no latency monitor’ feed that can be useful for getting other apps into the DAW mixing desk, but it’s a ‘mix’ of everything coming into the card that needs to be managed from the driver control panel…far from ideal.

Perhaps there are both technical, and legal reasons why this isn’t standard. So…here we are, hard patching, or using hacks like ASIOLink Pro, Jack, or really expensive enterprise networking drivers to hack it all together. Whatever the reasons are…it is what it is.

JACK actually looked REALLY promising to me. Especially because Bitwig has native support for it. It is a bit funny though because they do not support rewire where-as Reaper has native support for it lol and Ableton supports it, but not officially anymore.

And then… as I type this I just have to laugh at all these stupid, annoying, and very frustrating “work-arounds” for functionality that exists within ASIO right now. Yet, we have papa bearberg over here completely abandoning any evolution or higher usage of the technology.

You want to know a very similar tech but of which has the opposite stance? NDI It is a audio and video transport technology and they constantly push the boundaries of what the tech can do by making it accessible to everyone, everywhere and on everything possible. They want their tech working flawlessly everywhere… not just in their enclosed system where they ignore the tech potential.

Now, with that in mind here’s another shitty example of how the music industry is so behind. Look at midi lol… this is a horrible technology that has been allowed to exist for so long. It’s so limited. Then we have midi 2.0 coming out, finally, but there’s zero focus on speed, throughput, and/or latency. There are many challenges here, but generally speaking in the tech world, they push forward and you adapt or get left behind because a few things being left behind vs an evolutionary craw, evolution should be the main goal and focus.

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lol wow something I totally forgot about because of how bad ASIO is… errr was… all of this year and last year I spent a lot of time in disappointment due to not being able to use certain hardware in ASIO mode because then I couldn’t use my interface lol.

I just plugged in my RYTM MKII and realized I can now use it in ASIO mode. Because I can now share ASIO drivers between apps. It’s just embarrassing that Steinberg cannot do these things with their own tech.

ASIOLINK Pro (free now) works amazingly well for many Windows users.

It inserts itself using your ‘proper’ native ASIO drivers and sets up a powerful, no-latency ASIO backend of which apps can see as ASIO devices. It can support multiple clients. So, from there, you get a powerful routing and mixing matrix. Send stuff anywhere you want, including over the LAN!

It takes a minute to sort out how it works (docs are buried in the same folder it installs into), but once you’ve got it down you’re in ASIO/WDM routing heaven. The thing can even stream over LAN among other systems also running instances. Get it in ‘mutli-client’ mode, enable the loopback rack, and sort out that you always do ‘inputs’ in unique ASIO instances that live in the system tray for each ASIO app running. Route ‘outputs’ in the main asiolinktool.exe instance.
I.E. Send things in the main instance into loopback channels. Then, open the instance for whatever app you want audio routed ‘into’, and connect from the loopback into the DAW you like.

Added bonus, you can also route between WDM and ASIO apps.

Oh, and I almost forgot, it can optionally record whatever streams you want too…many tracks at once.

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PS…
Another ‘free’ option that works in a similar way is the opensource JACK Audio Kit. It can do many of the same things as ASIOLINK Pro, with the advantage that it’s still supported by a community. (ASIOLINK Pro guy passed away so it may never get any real future support, it’s great as long as it still works though!) The disadvantage is that it’s more difficult to get setup, and I’m not convinced it is as tightly coded and ‘lag/latency’ free.

Paid/Commercial all software options like those from VB-Audio are out there too. I’ve read they’re quite good and easy to use, but I’ve not personally tried them. Some of their products do similar things as ASIOLINK Pro and Jack2. Namely, set up a matrix for a more flexible ASIO backend, that also allows bringing streams from other driver types into the mix.

Thanks very much! I will try that, I have found all the files and got them installed so hopefully it won’t be a problem and you just saved me a lot of money, thanks!

No problem. Feel free to PM me if you run into trouble.

It does take a minute or 40 to wrap your head around it, but once you do, it’s amazing provided it gets along with your particular system (It’s been great for me on 3 different rigs so far, from Win7 to present day Win 11).

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Hi Brian, I’ve been struggling to understand the Looper feature in ASIO Pro for longer than I wish to share. I can’t find any real help on how to loop it back. What I’m trying to do is to get my Amplitube 5 software running on Behringers ASIO to input into OSB. Right now all I can get it the dry signal. ASIO Pro looks like what I want to run as my default soundcard if I can just figure out how to make it work. Can you recommend any settings for this application?

I’ll try to walk you through an example bringing an ASIO app (Dorico 5), and a two way WDM based coms app like Skype, onto the Cubase Mixing Console.

First, be sure “Enable LOOPER” is activated in the main ASIO Link Pro Tool.

Your first instance of ASIO Link Pro will go with your audio device. Be sure it is set up to use the device of your choice. Preferably a direct connection to one that has native ASIO drivers, but if not, you can go through the Steinberg Universal ASIO layer, or use something like ASIO4ALL.

Be sure “Enable multi-clients” is enabled.

In my case I’m connected to an old M-Audio Delta 1010 which has 12 input channels ( 1-8 Analogue, 9/10 SPDIF, 11/12 Internal Mixer), and 10 Output channels (1-8 Analogue, 9/10 SPDIF.

This means I can use any input channels 13 and higher, or output channels 11 and higher for more creative routing.

In this main instance, set up your loopback connections.

In my case here, I have made connections for looper out channels. I like to have Cubase connect straight to ASIO Link outputs 1-10, which go straight to my Delta 1010 outputs.

I’ve set aside ASIO Link outputs 15-20 in order to route stuff like Dorico and Band in Box through my Cubase Mixer.

Still in my main instance here, I’d like to hear my desktop bells and whistles, so I’m going to connect them straight to outputs 1&2 of my audio device. I only have a pair of monitors at the moment, so I’ll merge in all 8 channels as occasionally I play a video or something in the browser that uses surround sound channels. Note, I’ve also setup my desktop to default WDM audio to the special ASIO Link VADPRO drivers.

With this routing the OS noises bypass any DAW or recording that might be going on…so a Windows ‘ding’ isn’t going to make it into my actual DAW session.

Next I’ll open Cubase, which is my main DAW. Regarding input from my actual Delta 1010 interface, for now I only need a pair of analogue inputs for a stereo bottle mic, and the SPDIF inputs for my old Fantom XR. I’ve set them in Cubase to use ASIO Link Pro ports accordingly.


I’ve also made an External Instrument assignment (SE/LE versions of Cubase can’t do this, so make a regular input and route it through an audio track if your version of Cubase can’t do 'external rack instruments/effects) to channels 15 and 16 (remember, I connected those to the loop rail in my main ASIO Link Pro instance). I’ll later use this to Route Dorico’s output into Cubase.

Note, I could do this on regular input channels and route that through an audio track, but I find Cubase grants a little more flexibility on the mixing console if routed this way. If you bring stuff like this in as an ‘external instrument’, I find it easier to control where it sits on the console, you can do aux sends directly from instrument channel on the mixer, and you get more power in terms of hosting insert effects, plus a few more perks.

In contrast, if you set it up as a plain ‘input’ on the mixing console, you’ll need to route it into an Audio track first (even if you don’t plan to ‘record’ on the track) to get at things like aux sends, post fader slot effects, and so forth. Straight inputs also tend to be anchored more towards the far left of the console, and not as easy to move it on the console.

At the moment I only need 2 stereo pairs for output from the control room. My Main monitors are on Channels 1&2 of the Delta 1010. My headphone amp is on channels 7&8. So it looks like this.

I’ll go ahead and activate my Fantom and Dorico instruments in the instrument rack.


I’ll go ahead and start Dorico, and instruct it to use the ASIO Link Pro drivers, channels 15 and 16 for output.
image

Now that I have some ASIO apps running, and they are using the ASIO Link Pro backend, I can look in my Windows system tray and find new Green Keyboard Icons.
image

In this case, these icons represent new instances of ASIO Link Pro that are associated with Cubase13.exe, and VSTAudioEngine.exe (VSTAudioEngine belongs to Dorico). So, any time you connect an ASIO app to the ASIO Link Pro drivers, it gets a fresh instance of ASIO Link Pro, with the audio interface set to “ASIO Link Multiclient”.

To get audio into Cubase, I need to use this special instance of ASIO Link Pro from the system tray, and connect all of my inputs from here.

Mic from Delta 1010 (Channels 1&2)
Fantom XR from SPDIF (Channels 9&10)
Dorico from the loopback rail (Channels 15&16).

Now I find that my mic and instrument inputs are routed into Dorico and working, and I also hear Dorico through the Cubase Mixing Console when I play a score.

So, as a general rule of thumb, remember that you route OUTPUTS and setup loops in the Main instance of ASIO Link Pro (the one that launches initially, and connects to your audio interface).

You will always do INPUTS into your ASIO apps through their special multi-client instance in the system tray.

This takes care of ASIO apps, but what about WDM?

For these you instruct the app(s) in question to use the special WDM ASIOVADPRO drivers, and then simply connect them in the respective ASIO Link Pro multi-client session.

I.E. Imagine I have Skype set up to use the second ASIOVADPRO pro driver for input and output. So first I’ll set up an input for it on the Cubase Mixer (Alternatively, it could be set up as an External Rack Instrument like I did with the Dorico inputs, which I personally prefer). I’ll use channels 21 and 22, and I don’t need these on the looper rail since it’s coming off the WDM driver.

And I’ll set up Skype Output on Channels 21 & 22.

Go back to my Cubase ‘multiclient’ Instance of ASIO Link Pro and connect the ASIOVADPRO driver that Skype is using (green lines) for its OUTPUT (The chat I hear others saying on Skype).

To get output routed from that new Skype Cubase fader into Skype, I need to use the Master Instance of ASIO Link Pro…the very first one associated with asiolinktool.exe, that connects to the Audio Interface.

Link the output of channels 21 & 22 to the ASIOVADPRO driver that I’ve set Skype to use for ‘input’.

At this point I can use AUX sends and/or Group tracks/faders on the Cubase Mixing console to get a mic signal, and whatever ‘mix’ I’d like along with it directed to my Skype Out on the Cubase Mixer.

To control what I hear/record, or send on to other channels on the Cubase console…I have that fader on the Mixing Console now as well.

Again, the main ‘magic sauce’ in understanding how ASIO Link Pro works in multi-client mode is:
The first channels on the main asiolinktool.exe instance correspond with your actual physical audio interface.
So if yours has 4 inputs, and 4 outputs…anything from channels 5 and up you can run through looper and use for creative routing.

Always set up OUTPUTS in this main asiolinktool.exe instance.

To get audio routed INTO an app, you’ll always need to find its special instance of ASIO Link Pro in the system tray, and make the connections there.