Loosing parameters with VCA when they are at -oo (-inf)

i have search in forum but haven’t find topic on this problem (except on Cubase forum).
With the automation on VCA i discover that if i save the project when VCA are at (-00) (minus infinity) iam loosing my parameters.

For exemple if i have 3 tracks control by VCA like :
First track at -6db, second track at -10db and the third at -8db when VCA is at unity gain 0.

All will work with VCA automation, the problem come when iam saving my project, but only if on my VCA automation i have some part that automation goes to all the way down (-00) and that my cursor locator is localize at this part when saving my project.
If i restart Nuendo and reload the project, i loose my parameters.

If my cursor locator is somewhere betweem -104.00 up to 0 on my VCA track when saving, parameters stays…

So my work around is to create a “region” somewhere on my VCA where automation is not at -00 to keep my parameters when saving project.

In cubase forum they had a similare issue https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=253&t=113025&p=677777&hilit=vca#p677777

Can you post a video of it? It’s a bit hard to follow exactly what happens.

I post 4 pictures as i don’t have video recorder on that computer.
Hope this help.
They are classify by number :



the picture 4 :

Your tracks are not in “read automation” my friend.

Fredo

I think his point is that the target-channels were set manually to different values. The VCA then modifies those values. When then saving while the playback head is where the VCA is at minus infinity the project won’t read those initial target-channel fader values.

Look at it this way: If he did exactly what he did now, except you remove everything he did with the VCA - what behavior would you expect?

I would personally expect the target-channels’ faders to load at -6, -8 and -10, because that’s where they were when I closed. Adding a VCA shouldn’t change that, surely.

Non-automated faders remember their last settings when a project is reopened.
So, when these are @ -6, -8 and -10 upon closing, they will remember that last setting.
When you close the application and the cursor is at a place where the VCA has moved these faders to -12, -18 and -20, then these settings will be remembered, and the VCA automation line will push them back up to -6, -8 and -10 at the beginning of the project, or whenever they supposily are at their initial value.

However.

When the 3 faders are @ -inf, -inf and -inf before closing, they will remember -if, -inf and -inf, and will reopen like that.
By having the 3 faders at the same value (-inf), they lose their relationship to each other.
The application just remembers that they all were at -inf.

In short:
Non-automated faders remember their last settings when a project is reopened.
When this last setting is -inf, it the fader will remember that value.

I can’t say this enough … Write initial values before starting a mix. Write initial values !!!

Fredo

Ah, I see what you’re saying. I missed that the faders were effectively moved to minus inf by the VCA when closing. I completely agree with you.

Thanks all for your reply !
Yes sorry for my english some times it’s hard to be clear.

Fredo, all working if you not close Nuendo, all automation work as espected without the need to make my audio track in “read automation” because the VCA is here to control them.

VCA keep the relation volume between my audio track when moving 1 fader (the VCA), so iam thinking that my automation VCA should replace the 3 automation audio tracks, shouldn’t be like it ?

I thought that VCA would work for exemple with audio track at -6 -10 -8 like :
track 1 to track 2 = 4 db difference
track 1 to track 3 = 2 db difference
track 2 to track 3 = 2 db difference
So with what ever VCA value you have, the difference relation would stay the same.

So for me my point is that i thought it was bug because when closing at -inf we loose the relation data in VCA, it should have nothing to do with value, because what ever value we have, the VCA relation should stay the same.

Yes.
That VCA relation volume is lost when you close Nuendo but it happen only if the VCA is at -inf when save/close.
Whereas if you save/close Nuendo when VCA is not at -inf, all will work as espected when re-open Nuendo.

Yes. Because -inf is not a number.
There can’t be any relationship between something that is -inf and something else.

You will have the same problem whenever one of your VCA-ed faders is at -inf and the others aren’t.
So it’s not only true for above repro when all faders are at -infi.


Please write initial values. It saves so many-many-many possible problems, and yet nobody seem to use this.


Fredo

Thanks Fredo, i had the feeling it was this “not number” value that could cause the problem.
Yes i will also do the write initial values, i will keep save each step carefully when modify my VCA parameters, even if it’s not perfect at least the work is save.

There are actually different magnitudes of infinity, but it’s kind’a really off-topic… :wink:

I actually started doing that as soon as the first issues with VCA showed up. It’s probably why I never noticed this behavior.

This may help you - https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=253&t=113025&p=715918#p715918