Lyric alignment question/request

Dorico
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I think this is a feature request, but it may be a support/how-to request as well. I’m also aware that it’s a niche use-case and super-picky thing, so please treat it as such. :slight_smile:

Use case: aligning lyrics to notes for display on a screen. This involves big fonts, so the effect/issue is literally magnified - it wouldn’t be an issue with regular printed music.

I’d like to have left-aligned lyrics not be mathematically left-aligned, but aesthetically left-aligned. Right now, the left-most edge of the notehead and the left-most edge of the first letter of the lyric are left-aligned. But depending on the letter, it doesn’t always look great. (For reference, I’m attaching a screenshot composite with some examples - the first in each set is the default, and the second is my adjusted version.)

I can change this manually, as in the attached image, but is there any way to add the feature in to do this more automatically so I don’t have to do it all manually? I realize it involves interaction with the specific font and letter shapes, so maybe not. But I would very much appreciate it if is.

A secondary but related issue is lyrics that span notes with a slur. The left-alignment of the word/syllable with the first notehead sometimes creates an odd-looking alignment with the whole context. (In the attachment, the 2nd and 3rd examples show this - the 3rd one is worse.) I’m not necessarily looking for the words/syllables to always be centred within the slurred phrase; creating the offset to centre on the first letter would go a long way (e.g. in the 2nd example - the “char” of “chariot”).

Again, I know this is picky. But if there’s any way to speed up my workflow other than manually adjusting each word/syllable as needed, I would be a happy camper.

alignment_examples
alignment_examples960×1080 131 KB

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You can set the Indentation in the Lyrics Paragraph Style to something like -1pt, and that will affect left-aligned syllables, but not centred ones.

I’m not sure I understand the slur issue. Stave 3 looks entire as expected. (Though cha-ri-ot, surely?) Staff 4 does look odd, but Dorico should handle that correctly.
In the last two cases, it’s the size of the word “crown”, being wider than the two notes, that it causing problems.

Whatever size you’re displaying the music at, it is really optimal to have the text so much larger than the music? I imagine that at a distance where I can make out that size of text, I wouldn’t be able to make out the music.

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While I agree that mathematically left-aligned syllables can occasionally look ‘unbalanced’, even in music with the lyrics printed in normal sizes, I don’t think there’s an algorithm which could take all situations into account satisfactorily. Ben’s suggestion to adjust the Lyrics Paragraph Style indentation might help but that will affect all left-aligned syllables and I wonder why you object to ‘Help’, ‘char’ and ‘crown’ but not to the other left-aligned syllables ‘king’ and ‘hol’. Sure, ‘crown’ is exceptionally wide and looks better nudged slightly, but shifting all left-aligned syllables to the left would, in my opinion, produce an unbalanced result.
Please forgive me but while we’re being ‘super-picky’, right-eous and ho-li-ness were syllabified incorrectly and chariot is actually three syllables. :wink:

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According to Merriam-Webster, the word righteous is hyphenated between the letters h and t, although that doesn’t look right to me either.

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The Oxford Spelling Dictionary has right - eous.

Also the online hypenator here.

Back on topic, I do agree with the OP that you’re not going to get automatic help for something as exotic as this, and there are times when good old fashioned moving things by hand is still required. Hopefully, a subtle ‘optical indent’ will give you a better starting point, though.

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Frequently char-iot, sung char-yot.

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Note to self - next time, only show those specific examples that you want comment on. My fault for asking a super-picky question without the disclaimer that I only wanted to you be super picky with me about those three things and not the other things. :slight_smile:

Just as a general comment, all the syllabification is correct for how it’s supposed to be sung (eg. chariot) as well as needing to use a hymnal for reference that has it all hyphenated this way, so I won’t comment on those points - happy to discuss the finer points of sung syllabification on another thread. :slight_smile:

@benwiggy,
“You can set the Indentation in the Lyrics Paragraph Style to something like -1pt, and that will affect left-aligned syllables, but not centred ones.”
Thank you, I will give this a shot - I know that, due to the complexity of all the scenarios, it won’t get it all the way, but maybe it’ll get it close enough to fix most of the issue.

“I’m not sure I understand the slur issue. Stave 3 looks entire as expected… Staff 4 does look odd, but Dorico should handle that correctly.”
Yes, the 2nd set (the “char” of chariot) is probably too picky. In the 3rd set, “crown” is more egregious, as you say. So it’s not every instance of a word with a slur in which this needs to be “fixed”, just some.

“Whatever size you’re displaying the music at, it is really optimal to have the text so much larger than the music?”
It’s a judgment call, yes, but in my use case I believe it is optimal. The focus is the lyrics, and the musical notation is just there as a bit of a help. I actually want all the non-lyric elements to be a medium grey to help them further recede in visual importance, but that’s also another thread (that I already started a long while ago :slight_smile: ).

@Vaughan_Schlepp,
“While I agree that mathematically left-aligned syllables can occasionally look ‘unbalanced’, even in music with the lyrics printed in normal sizes, I don’t think there’s an algorithm which could take all situations into account satisfactorily.”
I suspect you’re right, which is why I asked the question. I don’t know that it’s even possible to do this automatically in a satisfactory way, but the Dorico developers are wizards, so maybe they can make it happen. :slight_smile:

For now, I’ll try Ben’s suggestion and keep tweaking manually as needed. Thanks everyone!

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Just one more quick comment while I’m thinking of it - the mathematical left-alignment does make more sense when multiple lines of lyrics are shown on the same system/page, like in a hymnal. So I’m certainly not saying it should be changed to only work in the way that I’m wanting. It’s just in this kind of use case (which I recognize isn’t really what Dorico is designed for, so it’s a bit of a hack) where different alignment options might be helpful.

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On the word “chariot”, if you’re Welsh, as I am, it would have three syllables. But most English people would elide it so that it has two.

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Never been to a Wales v. England rugby match, then…? “Swing Low, Sweet Cha - ri - ot…” :grin:

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Fair point - England’s green and pleasant land has its cha-ri-ots of fire. But Elijah has the fiery, fiery cha-riots. You pays your money… Blwyddyn Newydd Dda!

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