Marketing/Design: Could Groove Agent be tweaked to attract the Ableton crowd?

Virtual instruments Groove Agent
#1

Interesting discussion here that I started:

some input from

It’s an interesting concept maybe for Steinberg to explore:

-Expand Groove Agent to encompass all rhythmic instrumentation.
—Kits become ‘Instruments’, example: Bass Guitar, Keys, Electric Guitar, Drum Kit
-Expand the editor to have a full window mode
-Track/Arranger View
-Ableton/Logic Style Clips
-VST inserts
edit
-Can load small format Halion Instruments

ie, Groove Agent really has the potential to become it’s own sampler/loop/clips style DAW, it pretty much already is a DAW of its own.

Just an interesting thought, obviously it will still require some deep reworking to accomplish and I’m over simplifying. But it could be an interesting marketing product design strategy to compete and pull users from other DAWs. Even bringing in features from BitWig, FL, like easy modular style parameter routing.

Also, just the name “Groove Agent”, sounds like a household name, like, it could be a DAW… not just a drum kit VSTi and Sampler.

edit

‘Kits’ becoming ‘Instruments’ could also be VSTi inserts, in which case, the sample editor could become more of a macro/cc controller wrapper chainer thing in the style of Reason racks.

Or maybe at least, and smarter marketing would be - forget what I said about VSTi inserts, but instead be ‘Halion Instrument compatible’.

#2

I mean for version 1 of Groove Agent X, just keep it simple.

What cubase lacks is a scratch pad. That’s what ableton clips, maschine, serato studio etc are good for - getting ideas down fast.
Then you have the power of cubase to take those initial ideas to the next level and beyond with all the bells whistles power and detail it has.

The most important thing is for it to be able to detect tempo of samples dragged onto the pads and instantly realign all the different tempos of various samples placed there so they all follow the same tempo. This is what serato products do. That’s literally the fundamental basic of it. Once they have that. Anything else is a bonus. You actually don’t need clips once this is implemented, you just use midi parts in the project arranger and move those around as if they were clips. The most important part is the blending together of different tempos.

The Clíp aspect of it happens within Groove Agent X. Set the groove agent loop time eg a two bar loop clip. Drop a sample in to pad one. It Auto changes tempo to match project tempo. Do the same for other samples on the other pads.

If cubase brought this to fruition and marketed it properly and brought on various high profile djs and producers to showcase it, it would be an ableton killer. And would be the perfect blend of the old school traditional composition daw, and new school producers.

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#3

Acoustica MixCraft also has an interesting system but I’ve never tried it

#4

Yes it’s tried and tested. They all use this method, Maschine, ableton, logic, Beatmaker 3 iOS, serato studio. It’s simple but powerful. People keep referring to it as a toy and how in your last post it shouldn’t be integrated for arguably valid reasons. However the power of this perceived toylike workflow shouldn’t be underestimated. Yes Hans zimmer likely wouldn’t use it on the regular but many others would.

#5

Yes I don’t disagree, my only opposition is it being part of the base program and all the resources it would require to make happen that should be spent on other things.

imo, makes much more sense as a VSTi… nearly the entirety of Ableton could be a VSTi.

#6

The interesting thing is remember GA already has ableton style performance clip triggering. Jam state. It’s basically like abletons session view. I mean it’s all kinda there.

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#7

Yes I agree, once you figure out the UI, routing, and workflow you can achieve very Albeton like workflow and results… It’s just not apparent at first glance and even after spending some time it’s still not totally apparent.

I think opening up the UI into some full size windows would help a lot, everything is pretty constricted right now.

Making the internal MIDI/pattern editor have a full Window expander (perhaps integrated and separate popout resizable) would help.

And then, the Pattern Pads… I’m pretty sure could have an alternate view that is more Tracks and Clips style perspective without changing the actual mechanics of what is going on.

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#8

Exactly. How do we make this thread get seen by power movers at steinberg rather than get lost in a see of posts in a forum category that doesn’t seem to get much traction as it is.

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#9

They do read the forums… but it’s hard to tell when they do…

#10

This idea of yours is actually really exciting. I wish I had an in with the higher ups at steinberg to hear their thoughts on this thread. I would love something like this. Or even just a simple clips inclusion into the main software which I know you’re not a fan of. I just think a scratch pad is great to have for creative noodling. Before the big compositional throw down that cubase already has nailed.

#11

It sort of makes sense, instead of changing Cubase to compete with Abelton/Bitwig/FL features… Just tweak Groove Agent a bit which can be hosted in Cubase… Groove Agent can sort of just amalgamate what other DAWS have that Cubase doesn’t… And then advertise the F out of it.

And that way, Groove Agent, can sort of become this live performance extension of the Steinberg product family.