Melodyne with ARA - is there any hope?

Is anyone able to use Melodyne with ARA without annoying issues?
I’m still finding:

  • After using Melodyne with ARA on a clip, the whole GUI becomes slow and sticky if I edit (cutting, changing length, clip fades etc) the melodyned ciip
  • Comping a track with some clips Melodyned, often two clips play together
  • Often the Melodyne clip doesn’t play back

This is with the latest version of everything, Melodyne, Nuendo/Cubase on a Mac Studio with plenty of RAM.

I’ve taken to bouncing the Melodyned clips after I’ve approved them, as well as keeping the original clip AND the Melodyne version on disabled tracks so that I can go back if I need to.

I really don’t understand why I still get these issues even after bouncing the clip, so it’s effectively a fresh copy of the Melodyned clip.

I use Melodyne as an ARA extension all the time (on Windows 10 with about a 14-year-old system, so decidedly not a powerful modern CPU) with no annoying issues of the type you mention. BUT I’m not trying to do other sorts of edits on clips with Melodyne (or other ARA extensions) active on them. I use ARA extensions for editing and commit those edits prior to doing further operations. Or, alternately, I’ve done those other operations, especially comping and trimming fades and bouncing the comps, prior to using Melodyne (which I pretty much only use for tuning – I use VocAlign for tightening parts).

I don’t know much about ARA internals, but I think that, when you modify something inside an ARA extension, there has to be some caching of the modified audio, which would be what gets played back. If you’re tweaking that, then the cache probably needs to be regenerated. And, if you’re making external edits to the clips, that probably also changes what needs to be cached. If I’m correct in my thinking on this, it may be that regenerating the cache after changes makes things sluggish, especially in cases where clip length is changed, which probably results in needing Melodyne to process more or less information than it had been doing previously (and possibly analyzing any information added).

While I know it is possible to use Melodyne while comping, I never do, as it just wouldn’t be efficient workflow for me since I tend to have lots of takes, which I’m cutting up into phrase-level clips for auditioning purposes. (I’m also often comping multiple parts from the same pool of takes, for example to double a background vocal part.)

Because I do want to consider tuning, to a degree at least, while comping, I tend to use another tuning plugin (usually Waves Tune RT these days), either set for a chromatic scale or the scale of the song, while comping. That way I’ll know if things are at least in the ballpark (or if the “tuning” actually makes things worse by sending notes in the wrong direction). Then once I’ve done my comping, I do any audio clip editing (e.g. trimming, fades, possibly clip volume adjustments) and bounce the individual song sections for each part. It is after this point that I’ll use Melodyne, after removing the temporary tuning plugin, to do its thing. (On background vocals or lead vocal doubles, I’ll generally have also used VocAlign to tighten the parts prior to tuning.)

In general, I never leave ARA extensions inside a saved project file, even in disabled tracks. Any backups I have of tracks prior to bouncing the Melodyned clips will be prior to having used Melodyne, and, if I need to revisit them, I’ll just cut out the specific phrases that need to be revisited and do the Melodyne work on them again.

Oh, one other thing that I have noticed with ARA extensions that may be relevant, though different extensions may work in different ways. At one point, while using Synchro Arts RePitch, I tried using the setup option that saved the ARA data inside the Cubase project. (I was thinking it just meant it would save it in the ARA folder under the Cubase project folder, instead of in a system-wide location, but it actually saved it in the CPR file.) When I was doing that, I noticed that I’d get long pauses every time Cubase’s automated project backup kicked in. The reason was that the size of the CPR file was growing significantly due to the added ARA cache data (basically audio). It was so annoying that I reverted to its saving the cache data on disk, despite my not being happy that it was in another location I’d have to manually check to clean up at some point. I’ve have not seen an issue like this in Melodyne, so it probably is not saving its cache inside the CPR file.

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I recognise that comping melodyned clips don’t work. Solution: Comp the clips first then Melodyne.
Yes I get the eratic will it won’t it play back in Melodyne when double clicking. Solution: Play from spacebar briefly. Then double click works (for me).
Unlike rickpaul I do save the projects with Melodyne extensions - some of them with multiple instances and fortunately I haven’t had a problem. I do recognise others have had issues. Solution: Backup, backup, backup - each stage of the Melodyne work.

My avoiding this mostly stems from historical issues where saving projects with active Melodyne in it would corrupt projects. When I first encountered it, I found it was a fairly common problem. It was a long time ago now – I was still using SONAR as my DAW at that point – so it may not be a concern by now. However, my workflow is such that I pretty much never need to save projects with active ARA extensions as I treat the work I do with them as editing and tend to commit as I go. (I also do keep plenty of backups in case I ever need to do some sort of “do over” way down the line.)

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very many thanks Rick for your detailed reply (and the other one), very useful info about your workflow.

I’m new to Melodyne, I’ve always used (since the 90’s) Autotune (and still do) which I use in Offline Processing mode with AT in Auto (still plenty of adjustment possible) I never liked AT’s graph mode, which is more like Melodyne
So with AT I just select a phrase (sometimes just a single word/note) and fix the pitch, then move on. It’s very fast and reliable.

However Melodyne has much better pitch correction available if I want to spend time on it, hence I’m still working out the best way to approach it.

It seems we take similar steps by copying untreated tracks and holding them in reserve.
Hopefully the glitchy GUI issues will get ironed out sometime.

It’s been quite a few years since I’ve used Autotune – really, ever since getting used to Melodyne. I mostly used AT in graphic mode, and actually fairly similarly to how I’ve used Melodyne since.

If you’re just wanting to tune a single note in Melodyne, you can still select a phrase, or whole song section, but just find the note you want within whatever is in Melodyne and tweak only that part, be it with quantizing that specific note or just manually dragging it.

Nowadays I sometimes use Synchro Arts RePitch for tuning lead vocals. It should nominally be more transparent, and there are some facilities in it that give more control over the adjustments than what Melodyne can do. In practice, though, it can be more work, and my being a control freak on the changes can sometimes end up with less transparent results. :slight_smile:

I always use Melodyne for background vocals, though, because the ability to work on multiple parts in a single editor view is a big improvement in productivity/efficiency over trying to work on each part in a separate view. (While RePitch can use one part as a tuning guide for another, that only helps for doubles, so you still have to do the tuning of the first part for each double on its own, and I just find it more efficient to work on all the parts together for BGVs.)

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