Menu bar and title bar problem since C8

This grates on my nerves!!!

Cubase 7 and all earlier versions used something that at least looked and worked like all other Windows™ programs.
You either had your program maximized and the screen was covered with a background if you had no project open or it wasn’t maximized and you had other programs visible around the edges, nothing strange.

In Cubase 8 all we have is this retarded little menu bar/title bar thingie that you have to chanse to be sure to see. Now today I had Win Explorer open and maximized and I had done what I needed to to so I clicked at the red X to close it only to realize it was Cubase that I closed. Cubase was perfectly aligned to mask out Win Explorer so of course I closed the wrong program. This happens more time than I care to admit. And it’s only Cubase that works this bass ackwards way so it’s close to impossible to unlearn and relearn what I’ve been doing like second nature for 20 years in all other programs including Cubase 7 and earlier version!!! And there are other cases that this tiny bar just gets hidden when I try do drag and drop files and whatnot?!!? It’s a never ending nuisance! :imp:

What were they thinking? Doesn’t matter! Does anyone else loathe this silly behavior? Can we have a proper Windows behavior standard also for Cubase? At least a setting in the preferences, a check box that just short circuits the code that folds up/down the background? Because it’s there sometimes!!! Put an intern to work for half a hour and you have this pest solved? To me this isn’t a feature request. To me Cubase is broken in this case and needs to get fixed.

Or is there already a setting somewhere inside Cubase or in Windows that can do this?
Anyone else thinks this is a pain where the sun doesn’t shine?


My primary system is OS X. And to be honest, I really like the way, how Cubase works on Windows now, because this is kind of Mac style. So now, if I have to work with Cubase on Windows, it feels much better. In the past, I really hate the way, how Windows handled Cubase windows. I didn’t understand, why am I forced by any “frame” or “desktop”, where can I put my Cubase windows. Now, it’s finaly totally free. I really like it!

I used to be on Mac, and now I am mostly on Windows, though I occasionally use my 13" Macbook. As a Mac user myself, I see very little in common between the new Cubendo menubar on PC and the menubar on Mac. Also, I am seeing the same problems with focus that HowlingUlf is complaining about. These issues have been raised since the new windowing system was introduced. Part of the problem stems from the fact that Windows windowing is a mess compared to Mac, where it’s very neat and tidy, but this new feature doesn’t help the situation by introducing a specialized, non-conforming window to the mix.

At first, I did like the idea of having the menu bar separate from the windows of the program, mainly because it was what I was used to. But after using a Windows PC for a while, I grew to like having menus available inside the window in which I am at the moment. Especially when using a large display.

I don’t know that the separate menu bar is a requirement of the new window handling on the PC side, since other PC applications have independent windows that do include menus.

Also, the implementation of the menu bar on the PC side is not equal the Mac version. For instance, it does not play nice with the Windows Desktops feature. The Cubendo menu bar appears on every desktop, and it’s not possible to assign it to a specific one.

On the Mac side if a program is not frontmost, its menubar is hidden, and if it is frontmost the menubar shows. That’s how a Mac user knows which app is frontmost. On the PC side the whole windowing paradigm is different, and the UI concepts don’t match up much at all.

So at first glance it does look equal to the Mac menu bar, but in fact it’s not.

In any case, I also would like to see the menus available in all windows. (and not only when a window is maximized)

I absolutely detest the Cubase 8+ implementation of the menu in the title bar.
From a Windows user point of view it’s a regression. The way forward was a clean Metro style ribbon menu with groups, contextual tabs and contextual tab sets.

It’s one of the few things about Cubase that drives me nucking futs! I feel your pain. Lord forbid you have more than one window open and you’re trying to get back to your session. It becomes a clicking game. I just use the alt tab trick to stay sane.

I am not sure about the new window management system. I must say that life was made much easier when I started saving workspaces. I run three monitors and can switch from a basis Arrange page to the left, plugins/editing in the middle and the mixer on the right all locked to the monitors. I have one saved with the arrange page over the whole of three monitors. One is the mixer over all three. One is the Mixer and arrange page half and half overall three monitors. On one I have the Arrange Page on the left, a mixer with inputs and outputs + efx and Control Room out in half the middle and the Midi and audio mixer on the right. I quite often modify these presets if I think of a better arrangement. I have saved Alt 0-Alt 9.

You can change them with Alt and whatever number they are saved to. I actually find it quite useful to be able to change quickly at only the cost of resizing the mixer. For me this is an improvement. However I do agree that there are some issues. For instance the grey backdrop to the menu dropping out so the desktop is visible.

I think the window management is a discussion on its own. This one is solely about the awkward decision to implement the drop down menus in the title bar in the Windows environment. Working with workspaces doesn’t change that. To achieve proper floating windows it’s not necessary to put drop down menus in the title bar. Microsoft’s design concept guidelines for menu items is pretty clear to maintain consistency for Windows users:

All menu patterns except menu bars need a drop-down arrow to indicate the presence of a pull-down menu. The presence of menus goes without saying in a menu bar, but not in the other patterns.

Sure, it are guidelines, you don’t have to follow them. But it’s a bit like mounting the faders on the meter bridge of a mixing desk so you have some room to place a cup of coffee and make some additional notes. It works, but is it the best solution?

I agree with you. However, the menu bar has always had drop down menus from it’s first inception. How would you suggest the floating windows and menus are implemented? To be honest I find it a little difficult to understand exactly how it goes against the “rules” governing the management of windows.

Working with workspaces is a way for me to keep a bit of control of the situation.

Like it’s normally implemented. One main Window and floating windows with a proper z-order for any other window (e.g. mixer, VST, editors etc.).

Something like this 2x 1920x1080 monitor screenshot (the arrangement on the left screen (1) is the main window (maximized), the console on the right screen (2) is a floating window (also maximized)). The main menu bar items are where they belongs, in the menu bar, not in the title bar:

And when opening any other floating windows like VST’s it will look like this:

In the case above, floating VST windows are always on top of the mixer and floating editing windows and below menu’s or program dialogue boxes. The Z-order (the level of what is in front of what) of similar floating windows (e.g. the VST windows) is determined by user focus (clicking on them).

I took Studio One as an example, but could also picked most random DAW or graphic software, since they all more or less work in a similar way. Compared to all those the programs Cubase is very messy and with the menu bar placed in the title bar it even became more messy, which is an absolute shame for such a great program.

Right I am with you. Thank you for the explanation.

So would the solution be to make the arrange page the main window with the menu running along the top of that. As it used to be in fact. Because one of my irritations is that when the mixer is elongated over two screens, if one of the two screens has the menu bar the mixer will not expand to the top of the second screen. Leaving a space for the desktop. Irritating.

With floating windows the main window indeed can be just like it was, however it can stay on a single screen (not pulled across several screen like previous Cubase versions on PC). The main window can be maximized just like any other single screen application. However each floating window is on top of the main window, and can be positioned anyway and anywhere on any screen you like, freely. So yes the mixer or editors can go from edge to edge of the screen(s) (like this).