MIDI clock problems

andy_vibrola · February 27, 2025, 11:36am

Hello all,
I too, am having what I suspect are midi clock problems.
My set up:
iPad Pro M4 running iPadOS 18.3
Output to Behringer UMC 1820
MIDI from UMC 1820 to Arturia Beatstep Pro (BSP)
BSP MIDI out to external synths
I have both Cubasis 2.8.6, (Settings: hardware latency=ultra low, midi latency=0ms)

…as well as Cubasis 3.7.1 installed. (Settings: latency=5.3 ms, total 18.6ms, multi-core proc. enabled, ex. guard buffer=low, audio recording offset comp.=15ms, midi latency=0ms)

In each version project settings are: 44.1khz, 24 bit.
I can synchronize the BSP to the external clock from Cubasis 2.8.6 and the resulting audio is recorded ~3-5ms behind the beat. Great!

However, when I record the same setup, same tempo, with Cubasis 3.7.1 the resulting audio is recorded ~40-45ms behind the beat. Not so good.

Any suggestions to troubleshoot would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Andy

PS. MIDI events recorded from BSP into Cubasis 3.7.1 are ~36-38 ms behind the beat. MIDI events recorded from BSP into Cubasis 2.8.6 are exactly on the beat.

LSlowak · February 28, 2025, 10:13am

Hi @andy_vibrola

Thank you for your message, which has been shared with the team.

Did you try changing the “MIDI Output latency” slider (in Setup / MIDI) to -40ms or +40ms, or increasing the “Audio Recording Offset Compensation” slider to 50ms?

If this doesn’t help, can you reproduce the issue with a simpler setup, for example by only connecting one external synth that receives MIDI clock and MIDI note output?

Thanks
Lars

andy_vibrola · March 2, 2025, 2:20am

Hello Lars, thank you for the response.

I just tried adjusting the midi output latency settings. Positive values only add to the latency, negative values do not seem to have any effect whatsoever.

Increasing the value of the audio recording offset compensation from 15 ms to 50 ms increases the latency an additional 48ms.

If I take the same midi phrase from the BSP, recorded in Cubasis 3.7.1, quantize it to the beat, play it back directly to the same external synthesizer, the audio is recorded only 5ms behind the beat. Perfectly acceptable.

Following your suggestion of simplifying the midi routing… if I send midi clock from Cubasis 3.7.1 to a synthesizer with its own internal step sequencer sync’d to Cubasis midi clock, notes from the synth’s step sequencer arrive approx 35ms behind the beat, the recorded audio arrives a couple milliseconds behind the MIDI note.

Below I have appended the MIDI clock output from both versions of CUBASIS as recorded directly to PC using MIDI OX. Perhaps this might offer some insight?

Tempo set to 115 bpm for both instances of Cubasis.

Thanks for your help.

Regards,
Andy

MIDI Clock Output From Cubasis 3.7.1

TIMESTAMP IN PORT STATUS DATA1 DATA2 CHAN NOTE EVENT
39143 9 – 250 — — – — Start
39145 9 – 251 — — – — Continue
39171 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
39191 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
39213 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
39235 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
39255 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
39277 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
39299 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
39319 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
39341 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
39363 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
39383 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
39405 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
39427 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
39453 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
39475 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
39495 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
39517 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
39539 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
39559 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
39581 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
39603 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
39623 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
39645 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
39667 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
39687 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
39709 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
39735 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
39757 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
39779 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
39799 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
39821 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
39843 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
39863 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
39885 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
39907 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
39927 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
39949 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
39971 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
39991 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
40013 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
40039 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
40061 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
40083 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
40103 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
40125 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
40147 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
40167 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
40189 9 – 252 — — – — Stop
40191 9 – 242 7 0 – — Song Position Ptr

MIDI Clock Output From Cubasis 2.8.6

TIMESTAMP IN PORT STATUS DATA1 DATA2 CHAN NOTE EVENT
385469 9 – 250 — — – — Start
385469 9 – 251 — — – — Continue
385471 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
385483 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
385505 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
385525 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
385547 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
385569 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
385591 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
385613 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
385635 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
385657 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
385677 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
385699 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
385721 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
385743 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
385765 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
385787 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
385809 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
385831 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
385851 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
385873 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
385895 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
385917 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
385939 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
385961 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
385983 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386005 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386025 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386047 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386069 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386091 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386113 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386135 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386157 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386177 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386199 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386221 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386243 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386265 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386287 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386309 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386329 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386351 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386373 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386395 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386417 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386439 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386461 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386483 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386505 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386525 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386547 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386569 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386591 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386613 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386635 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386657 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386677 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386701 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386721 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386743 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386765 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386787 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386807 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386831 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386851 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386873 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386895 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386917 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386939 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386961 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
386983 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387005 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387025 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387047 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387069 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387091 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387113 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387135 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387157 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387177 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387199 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387221 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387243 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387265 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387287 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387309 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387331 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387351 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387373 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387395 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387417 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387439 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387459 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387483 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387505 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387525 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387547 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387569 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387591 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387613 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387633 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387657 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387677 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387699 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387721 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387743 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387765 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387787 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387809 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387831 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387851 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387873 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387895 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387917 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387939 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387961 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
387983 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
388005 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
388025 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
388047 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
388069 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
388091 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
388113 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
388135 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
388157 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
388177 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
388199 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
388221 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
388243 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
388265 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
388287 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
388309 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
388329 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
388351 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
388373 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
388395 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
388417 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock
388417 9 – 252 — — – — Stop
388419 9 – 242 22 0 – — Song Position Ptr

.

andy_vibrola · March 29, 2025, 7:10pm

Hello Lars,

I’m just checking in to see if any insights / progress has been made with this issue. You said that it has been shared with the team, have they had a chance to test it? Were they able to produce the same results? Do they have any further questions?

Any feedback you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

Andy

LSlowak · April 10, 2025, 6:59am

Hi @andy_vibrola

Our team did the following test and was unable to reproduce the issue.

Setup

Cubasis 3.7.5 on iPad Pro M1, iPadOS 18.4
Connected via Apple USB C cable to UR-44C
Yamaha Clavinova connected via MIDI cable to UR-44C
Setup options: 48 kHz, Latency 5.3 ms, MIDI Clock on, MIDI Output Latency 0 ms, MIDI Learn off, Mackie off, Ableton Link off.

Steps

Created a new project, added a MIDI track, recorded a 2 bar loop and quantized it.
Inspector / Routing / MIDI Input to “None”, MIDI Output to UR-44C
Set the track’s volume to 0 (in order to hear only the Yamaha Clavinova)
Started cycle playback => Clavinova plays the MIDI notes.
On Clavinova, enabled MIDI Clock input and started a rhythm (alternatively I could have started playback of a pre-recorded song)

Result

Notes and rhythm are in sync, even after 60 minutes.

Would it be possible for you to try it with a similarly simple setup that only compares MIDI note output to MIDI clock output with one keyboard or synth, without audio recording?

Thanks
Lars

andy_vibrola · April 25, 2025, 3:08am

Hello Lars, thank you for your reply.

iPad Pro M4 running iPadOS 18.3
Cubasis 3.7.5
(Settings: latency=5.3 ms, total 18.6ms, multi-core proc. enabled, ex. guard buffer=low, audio recording offset comp.=5.5ms, midi latency=0ms)

Per your suggestion, I simplified the setup to a single device.
MIDI output to Behringer UMC 1820 from UMC 1820 to Pioneer SP16

I recorded and quantized a midi track in cubasis of a basic drum beat (base drum, snare, high hat) these MIDI notes are routed to play samples on the SP16.

Inside the SP16’s internal sequencer I sequenced a cowbell on every quarter note.

So the BD, SD, & HH are samples triggered from MIDI notes sent from Cubasis, and the CB is sequenced internally on the SP16 and sync’ed to MIDI clock sent from Cubasis.

I will say the timing between the two remains consistent. I only played the sequence for a couple minutes, but I cannot detect any drift between the two.
However, if you examine the two attached pictures, track 3 is the audio of the cowbell sequence. Track 2 is the drum beat, both recorded in the same take. From the very beginning, the cowbell starts 37 ms behind the beat. After two minutes, it is still 37 ms behind the beat.

Even without recording the audio output, there is a perceptible flam effect between the cowbell strikes and the beat. So I don’t think it depends at all on whether or not I am recording audio.

Thank you for your help,

Andy

andy_vibrola · April 25, 2025, 3:27am

From my earlier post, you’ll notice that the timestamp seems to indicate that the timing clock messages coming from Cubasis 3.7.1 appear to be a little slow off the mark when compared to version 2.8.6. Perhaps it’s nothing?

MIDI Clock Output From Cubasis 2.8.6

TIMESTAMP IN PORT STATUS DATA1 DATA2 CHAN NOTE EVENT
385469 9 – 250 — — – — Start
385469 9 – 251 — — – — Continue
385471 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock. 2ms elapsed
385483 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock. 14ms elapsed
385505 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock. 36 ms elapsed

MIDI Clock Output From Cubasis 3.7.1

TIMESTAMP IN PORT STATUS DATA1 DATA2 CHAN NOTE EVENT
39143 9 – 250 — — – — Start
39145 9 – 251 — — – — Continue
39171 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock. 28 ms elapsed
39191 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock. 48 ms elapsed
39213 9 – 248 — — – — Timing Clock. 70 ms elapsed

LSlowak · May 8, 2025, 2:26pm

Hi @andy_vibrola

We’ve added the issue to our bugbase, but are still unable to reproduce it on our end. Due to this we’re unable to provide a timeline for a fix - but we’re keeping an eye on it and let you know if anything changes.

Thanks
Lars