Also please note that there is no FX send activated, yet something appear to be going to the internal Reverb.
This project has been first created with D3.5. It sound correctly, but there is this strange thing with the Mixer. This also happens with other projects (I’ve not been able to see if it happens with all of them).
The VSTi are all VSL Vienna Ensemble Pro channels (a single instance). Four MIDI ports are used, but this seems to have no relevance for appearing and not appearing instruments.
Dorico’s Mixer doesn’t show faders for instruments: it shows faders for plug-in outputs. Perhaps you have specified in the Endpoint Setup dialog that not all of the outputs should be shown? Or perhaps you have configured your VST plug-in such that not all outputs are set up or connected?
All the instruments in VEP are going to the Master Bus 1, corresponding to the main stereo outs. They can actually be heard. If I solo one of the instruments not appearing in Dorico’s mixer, I can hear it.
If, in Dorico, I switch on the display of MIDI channels, the missing instruments appear (but as MIDI mixer channels, and not Instrument ones).
The instrument channels are generated based on the number of channels available in the VEP instance. Typically 32.
If you want to return audio from VEP on individual channels into DORICO you will have to specify the OUT/OUT channels for each instrument in VEP and you can mute the Master strip. See attached demo (using SY’d SE. Just a routing dummy, no expression maps or playback templates involved) VEP-config-DOR.dorico (633.7 KB)
But then, why the Horns (all sent to the same output in VEP) are available as separate channels in the Dorico mixer? On the contrary, Trombones are in part hidden (1-3), in part shown (4), even if they are sent to the same audio output in VEP.
I THINK this is a Dorico limitation… it will only list faders for 16 MIDI channels regardless of port…
Say your setup have
PORT 1 - channels 1-4
PORT 2 - channels 1-4
PORT 3 - channels 1-4
PORT 4 - channel 1
only instruments allocated to PORT 1 will appear in the mixer.
You can still use the routing scheme I mentoioned above, but you will have to activate UNUSED in the mixer to see the return faders.
If, instead you use e.g.
PORT 2 - channels 5-8
etc. then the instruments will appear in the mixer. You would have to change the midi channel assignments in VEP though, so it sort of destroys the logic and defies the purpose…
The last time we talked about this in the above thread, Daniel said that they were looking into it, so maybe once the Play window has been finished, this port and mixer limitation will be changed. In the meantime, it is best to limit each VEPro instance to 16 midi channels using only Port 1.
Maybe I’m miss-understanding and I don’t have VEP, but I don’t think it is a Dorico Limitation, or at least I’ve had more than 16 channels in the mixer before on different ports.
What I HAVE seen goes back to what Paolo mentioned about using a single instance of Vienna - and I think it tracks with what Daniel said about Dorico showing Faders for plug-in outputs: Which is:
A) if I have a single instance of a plugin
B) If I’m using different channels on that plugin for different instruments
C) If I have the plugin configured for mains (stereo) output only
D) Then only the FIRST instrument to use the plugin shows up in the mixer.
If I use a single Opus instance with multiple outputs (and that has to be configured in Opus, not just the endpoint) then I WILL see them all in the mixer, but the fader names will be the generic Opus output names instead of the instrument name. (except for the first one).
I’m not sure that I think it is a Dorico problem. I suspect the labels come from the Plugin in the multiple output scenario. In the case of a single instance with a single stereo out - what else could I expect Dorico to do? If I’m doing something like that, then I have to be planning on using the mixer, inserts, and such inside the Opus plugin to get the expected balance.
FWIW sometimes I actually like that I can treat a single instance of Opus as if it were a “Brass section” with just a single output and Dorico Fader in the mixer. It makes printing stems a few mute clicks easier since we only have one send at the moment.
I agree that it can get confusing, if for example an unexpected instrument defaults to that plugin and I am unaware of it.
Say for example - in deference to Paolo’s example - I have Opus loaded up with different Brass as described. And I put it in the same spot in the rack that Halion used to be (because I don’t need Halion anymore.) Only I forgot that Flute 1 defaulted to Halion and I haven’t changed that yet. So now none of my Brass shows up and my Flute is sounding like a Trumpet.
As one with very limited DAW experience, I am not entirely clear how one uses ports vs tracks/channels effectively and would love to read more about how this distinction is designed to function usefully, as I’m sure it is.
The MIDI spec is limited to 16 discrete channels. So ports/banks were invented to make it possible to get X times 16 channels into a single (e. g.) VEP instance. (very useful if you want to mix entirely in VEP. ) what Finale used to call channel 17, is iow port 2, channel 1…
So you are only getting one fader total for the Brass, or only one that does anything? I guess with the way I’m using VEPro I’m still getting all the faders, but only the fader attached to the instrument using Channel 1 does anything, and it controls everything on that instance like your Brass section.
Following this, I don’t think that is the result I’m seeing as I’m still getting all the faders, it’s just only channel 1 that shows any levels and has any affect, due to C above. For a recent string quartet job:
A) 1 instance of VEPro in Dorico
B) Each string instrument has it’s own channel (So 1-4, 4 total, all on Port 1)
C) Master Bus in VEPro set to OUT 1 / OUT 2
D) I still get faders for all instruments in the D4 Mixer, but only the fader for channel 1 has any effect on the playback, and it affects the entire mix being output from that instance of VEPro.
Not sure whether this advice is needed, but once you have selected individual stereo outputs for your channels in VEPro, you have to change the setting at the bottom of the endpoint configuration where it says: ‘Number of Audio Outs to Show in the Mixer’ to 16. Then they will show up in the appropriate place in the Dorico Mixer and be correctly named. The issues arise when you want to use more than Port 1 in a single VEPro instance, as mentioned above. At present, Dorico does not reflect in the mixer more than 16 channels, even though the audio still comes through on the other ports. This is why it is best in my opinion, to stick with Port 1 - channels 1-16. Otherwise the mixer can get very confusing. I haven’t tried this with Kontakt, which also allows multiple ports, but I would assume it is the same.
Here is a VEPro example: Instance 1: 16 instruments on midi channels 1 to 16. Change the output of each instrument in the VEPro mixer to outputs 1&2, 3&4, 5&6 etc up to 31&32.
Once you have that endpoint setting set to 16 audio outputs in the Dorico endpoint configuration, it should work.
Audio outs and Ports are not connected because you can interchange them.