I have a somewhat unusual situation: I edited a montage in 16/44.1 (as received from the artist) and now need to deliver a 24/88.2 version. I discovered that WL 8’s mixed sample rate support only involves converting any files to the montage’s specified sample rate rather than truly mixing sample rates.
I was hoping to just replace the files and do any slight time stretching done to the original montage, but it looks like it’s more complicated than that. The original montage has volume curves which don’t seem to be reproducible. I was hoping to put the hi-res files on another track, match the times per track by lining up the starts and doing any time stretching, and then replacing the initial 16-bit track files with the hi-res ones, leaving the volume curves intact. This doesn’t look to be possible.
Can anyone offer any suggestions? Many thanks in advance.
I discovered that WL 8’s mixed sample rate support only involves converting any files to the montage’s specified sample rate rather than truly mixing sample rates.
Sorry, but “truly mixing sample rates” does not mean anything. Mixing can only happen at a given unique sample rate.
Therefore, I don’t see where the problem is.
I really appreciate your reply. I noticed that the sample rate is converted to the audio montage’s setting upon import. What I want to do is work on a montage with both 44.1 and 88.2 material (in the 44.1 kHz montage since that’s what the initial material is), and then render at 88.2. If I do this, is the original 88.2 material preserved, or does the montage render only the 44.1 material that was converted upon import into the montage?
In other words, when SRC is used in a montage, are the converted files only temporary files so that WL can mix and play all material, or is the sample rate permanently changed as soon as files are imported into a montage?
I appreciate your reply. The situation is that I was given 44.1 kHz material to edit, and now the montage needs to be reproduced using 88.2 kHz material. The edited montage includes time stretching and volume curves.
If I set this montage to 88.2 kHz, it plays twice as fast.
Is there any way to lock the volume curves to mm:ss.ms rather than to individual samples?
When I’m mastering something that is originally sent to me at 96k for example, I play the material through my analog gear and capture back at 96k using a combo of Logic and Pro Tools. Once All songs are captured, I use iZotope SRC via Sample Manager app to convert to 44.1 before loading the clips into Wavelab.
I don’t care to run Wavelab at 96k and use the Crystal Resampler on my renders or DDP generations, I like to have all my sessions that are destined for CD or digital distribution be at 44.1k. This isn’t an issue for material that is delivered to me at 44.1k already. I don’t up-sample.
However, I would like to find an easy way to create a 96k version of the 44.1k montage to use for the vinyl master without having to completely reassemble the gaps between songs and apply any plugins and track markers.
Basically, is there a way to turn a montage into a 96k montage from 44.1k and then use the replace clip feature to reference the 96k files I have. The 96k and 44.1k audio files are always identical in name and length, so it could be easy as far as that goes.
This way, once the digital version is approved, I could make a higher sample rate vinyl master quickly based on the layout and data of the 44.1k digital master montage.
This is something I admit to not spending much time researching, but I’m wondering if it can be achieved by creating a template of some kind.
I like that Logic let’s you change the sample rate at any time. So I think in Logic for example, I could do a save as from my 44.1k session, then change the sample rate, and then replace the clips with the higher sample rate versions.
And since for me, my 96k versions and 44.1k versions are always the same length and same trimming at the start of the file, it should be a pretty smooth process in that regard.
Basically, is there a way to turn a montage into a 96k montage from 44.1k and then use the replace clip feature to reference the 96k files I have. The 96k and 44.1k audio files are always identical in name and length, so it could be easy as far as that goes.
Not directly, but there is a trick: Render the whole montage as a 96k file (use the Crystal Resampler), and activate the Render option “Open as new Montage”. This will create the montage with all the markers where you expect them. Now detach the markers from the big unique clip. Now you can insert your 96 k file wherever you like.
Thanks, PG! It doesn’t look like it will work for my project due to time stretching and volume curves, but I’ll definitely keep this in mind for future projects.
I’m afraid that it doesn’t quite work on my end either although I see the initial logic.
It’s a little too much workaround because I would still have to re-apply clip plugins to new clips once I have the 96k clips loaded. I would also have to re-apply a lot of other settings like clip gain, fade ins and outs, as well as some other stuff that I haven’t realized yet.
In the future, it would be great to see a feature that can convert a 44.1k montage to a higher sample rate, and then ask for the higher sample rate files to match and insert.
I’m working on a project now where both I and the client want to keep the master at 96k for the master to the cut the lacquer for vinyl, so to make it easy, I am keeping the montage at 96k and trusting the crystal resampler on the master section to down sample for the DDP and other digital masters.
I’m wondering if there is any possibility of adding the iZotope SRC to Wavelab? I have the iZotope SRC built into an app called Sample Manager and it sounds quite good. SRC can only be licensed from iZotope by software manufacturers and can’t be purchased as a standalone plugin.
I would find SRC more useful than the MBit dither since I think SRC can have way more influence on your sound than a dither plug-in, and I use Ozone anyway so the MBit dither is right there in Ozone 5.
I’m with Jpersinski on this one: I prefer the Izotope SRC to Crystal… sorry. That said, I love Crystal in realtime settings, and don’t mind mastering through it - even when I SRC with Izotope later, I find Crystal is closer to “reality” than simply monitoring at 88 or 96K (gives me a false sense of confidence!). I’d really like to have that built-in for render, but since I’m unaware of a realtime Izotope SRC plug, it really wouldn’t help me much in session.
What I do now may help you though: I bounce 96K and SRC the output in RX, and re-mark it (you can also lock marks in a DDP and swap files, or if you render with audio in gaps just drop then auto-mark audio segments after bounce/SRC with 0 sec gaps).
But yeah, I’d still like to be able to do all this in a single step, swapping Crystal Ultra for Izotope SRC during render. Small difference, but as mentioned, it’s more audible to me than dither flavors.
Wouldn’t you be able to simply change the Montage to 96khz and then use the “Replace Audio FIle” command and simply use your 96khz versions? Maybe I’m missing something about what you want to achieve.
Also, if your original files are 44/16 there is no point in upsampling or increasing the bit resolution. You won’t gain anything in terms of noise floor or frequency response. You’d be better off just delivering the 16/44 files.
a) I don’t think that you can simply change the sample rate of a montage once you create it.
b) In my situation, I capture masters from my analog gear at whatever sample rate the originals are at (using other software). Then I trim all the songs/regions up as desired, name them properly and load into Wavelab. If the files a’re higher than 44.1K I convert down to 44.1 using iZotope SRC in the Sample Manager app.
After the digital master is approved, sometimes I need to make a vinyl master in which case I’d like to have an EASY way to maintain my montage layout, volumes, metadata, clip & track FX etc but open in a montage at the same sample rate as the original captures, and use “Repalce audio file” option and point Wavelab montage to load the higher res files. This would be simple for me because if I have 44.1K files, and 96k files, they will have the exact same heads/tails and names because I do intital trmming and naming on the hi res file before SRC.
From there, I make my master adjustments unique to the vinyl and export at 24-bit and native sample rate. 1 24-bit hi-res file per album side.
It could certainly be simplified. In my world, almost half the projects I master require a vinyl pre-master too.
I’m working on an album now that came to me at 96k, so I play/capture through the analog chain and 96k, make a 96k montage for the CD/digital master and trust the crystal resampler on the master section to convert down to 44.1k for the CD/digital master DDP. When that is approved, I will tweak the master setting for vinyl and remove the resampler so it can remain at 96k.
One downside to this is the resampler must be used in the main master section followed by my final peak limiter and dither, so the settings can’t be saved with the montage in the “new master section” that is part of the montage.
The other downside is that I prefer the iZotope SRC, party due to sound, and partly so I don’t have to wait for Wavelab to process it in realtime with each render or DDP creation. I like to do it once and trust there are no glitches for the 44.1k digital master.
a) I don’t think that you can simply change the sample rate of a montage once you create it.
It is possible, menu Edit > Audio Montage properties.
But this will only change the “internal” sample rate. The markers, which are stored as sample position, won’t be shifted when you change the sample rate.
This being said, I have noted the needs mentioned in this thread, and I might come up with some solution in the future.
Thanks, I tried doing a save as… on a montage and switching the sample rate just as a test. It looks like the only thing that would really need to happen is to have the CD track markers stay locked to the absolute time rather than than samples. Another thing that would be nice is a way to bulk replace all the audio files for a montage to the higher sample rate versions.
