More hairpins

I seem not to be able to shift the end of one hairpin to align with others in the score? Is there something I am missing? The bottom stave in each system will not allow me to adjust the hairpin length to be the same as the others - I have tried lots of things now.


This is to do with those hairpins not having to go through a barline. See here:

Aha! Thanks - perfect.

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Hi Lillie,

I see here how I can go into the properties panel to manually toggle disallowing crossing barlines. And I see that I can toggle in Engraving Options “Do not cross Barline” for “Hairpins ending at beginning of note at start of bar”. But while I have that option selected, my hairpins in the bottom stave (basses) are still defaulting to “crossing” the barline.

Is there any way to get it so that instruments at the bottom of a group (so the barline isn’t cutting across the white space) to behave the same as the rest, and stop before the barline? Or is this currently only a manual function in the properties panel?

Set Hairpins ending at beginning of note at start of bar to Do not cross barline in the Advanced Options section of the Gradual Dynamics section of the Dynamics page of Engraving Options.

Yes, but it doesn’t seem to apply to the bottom stave? In my gif, you can see I have “Do not cross barline” selected, the apply button is greyed out because it has already been applied, and when I then input the “p<>” you can see that the peak still occurs after the barline in the basses.

hairpin barline

If you enter the hairpins together, like you do, you create a “messa di voce”. This is handled almost like one hairpin and isn’t affected by this setting. You can check a part layout, there they cross the barlines.
If you want the messa di voce to stop before the barline, you can set it in the properties panel Barline interaction. You can choose to change it locally (only for this layout) or globally (affecting all layouts)

From his GIF, it looks as though he has already made this setting.

Nikkul is right about the messa di voce double hairpin, but there isn’t a separate setting for them regarding barlines. For this I would select just the first note (2 bars) and enter p< then select the second note and add the >.

Not a setting in the Options but in the Properties Panel.

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Right, I’m aware that I can manually, individually, fix things. But in the links/options pointed to from both @dspreadbury and @Lillie_Harris (I hope I’m not having poor ettiequte tagging them), and in other similar postings I’ve seen on the forum, they say that “You can allow/disallow hairpins across barlines when they end on the first note in the next bar; for example, so all hairpins appear the same length across multiple staves that do not all have barline joins.” If I understand this correctly, that SHOULD mean that it gets applied to the bass instrument due to the preference I have selected in the Engraving Options.

The fact that mdv hairpins actually have this setting in the properties panel seems to me to indicate that the Engraving Option should apply to them too, as they’ve designed them with that functionality in mind.

You are correct though that my method of input, while seemingly quite quick to do, does result in mdv hairpins instead of regular ones, and it appears that the issue is only because of that. Inputting via multiple-item-entry with just the first half and then the second (which is regular dynamics) follows the Engraving setting, as well as inputting across all staves with the carat.

I guess the question now is, is this the result of “a feature not a bug”? It seems to me like the Engraving Option should apply to mdv hairpins as well as regular ones, though currently it seems it does not.

If you check the layout of the parts you will see, that messa di voce won’t stop before the barline in any part. In the score it’s just a „avoid collision thing“ with the connected barlines.
I’m not on my machine, but i think the setting, you set in engraving options, will affect all other hairpins AND the end of the mdv (because the mdv is just ONE „gradual dynamic“).

Maybe from a musical standpoint the workaround with splitting the dynamic in p< and > might also be correct, because a messa di voce is on a single note?

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Yes, that’s definitely the solution as it currently stands.

Honestly, I’ve found mdv hairpins to be nothing but a headache for me, and I wish I had a way to prevent them from inputting altogether. I do “<>” very frequently in my work, and the fact that that inputs mdv hairpins, which don’t operate like other dynamics and require a separate editing process, and don’t have the same rules applied to them, trips me up quite frequently.

I just need to get into the habit of never inputting two hairpins together in the popover, however quick and intuitive it may seem to be.

Regardless, it still seems like the Engraving Option to prevent crossing barlines should engage the “Stop Before Barline Interaction” property in mdv hairpins as that would result in a consistent application of hairpins across the program, to me at least.

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