Hello folks
Long time user of the Cubase Score Editor to write my orchestral music and I often wonder if I should try Dorico.
There’s one simple thing though that I think prevents me from taking the plunge.
I want to enter notes by mouse. But I make my actual choice of desired pitch purely by ear. As I move the selected note over the staff, presumably with the mouse button held, I want to be able to hear that full chromatic range of notes, until I get to a position where I hear the desired pitch, then I’ll release the mouse button and the note will be placed.
Is that possible? Can I hear all the pitches I transition over as I hover the note over the staff?
Thanks
Firstly, I hope you’ll forgive the chuckle I initially had when reading your post’s thread and thinking: “wow, that user’s advanced! I’m still working out entering key commands with my nose”:
Now, on to an actually helpful response…
If you selecte a note with your mouse and hold the button you can drag up or down to audition diatonically. If you want to be able to move chromatically, hold down SHIFT while dragging the note.
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Hehe! Omni-dexterous sense organ note input - it’s the future!
But what you describe sounds exactly what I was hoping for - and I didn’t realise it was possible in Dorico
So, just to be clear… Positioning in this way (with Shift held as I need the full chromatic sweep), I will hear all the potential pitches as I move around?
It worked very nicely for me when I tried it earlier. The one caveat: you’ll have to enter a note first, perhaps by just typing one in from your computer keyboard, then it can be mouse-click-dragged.
Thanks judddanby.
I’ve just this moment downloaded the trial to have a little explore.
Unless I’m missing something it doesn’t seem quite as simple as I hoped.
For note input it needs to be in a state where the ‘Start Note Input’ button on the top left is highlighted. In this mode, even after first inputting a note as you suggest, moving it around does not let all the pitches sound. I have have to deselect ‘Start Note Input’ before I can move the selected note around and hear all the pitches. But then of course in that mode I cannot enter notes!
Am I missing something? I very probably am. I have just dipped my toe into an ocean.
No, you’re correct, @jamieboo. I forgot to mention that you’d have to exit note entry input mode for the dragging to be available. I guess I didn’t fully pause to think about the workflow you’re hoping for — apologies.
I know notes can be drawn into the Key Editor (Play Mode). Might be a nice solution for your needs. (Another toe, same ocean…)
Ah, I see.
Yes, using the Key Editor would slightly defeat the purpose of moving to notation software.
I rarely touch the Key Editor in Cubase, I spend all my composing time in Cubase Score Editor - it’s that very preference for notation that makes me sometimes think it makes infinitely more sense to use a notation program. But it’s these little workflow quirks that always confound me! Though I’m more at home in a notation visual environment, I compose entirely by ear rather than the more systemic process of knowing that my next note is an F# for example. I just wish there was an option of note input similar to that of Cubase Score Editor. Och well.
Thanks anyway.
Happy to try to help, and wish I could do more. Like you, I’m a notation-based composer, but I have no Cubase experience and so may be missing some point of intersection between its Score Editor and Dorico.
Hang tight; I’m sure others with greater wisdom than I will come in on this.
Thanks Judddanby.
Yeah, it’s frustrating.
There’s no distinctive quality really about the Cubase Score Editor, it’s just simple and works for me. I just choose a note (length) from the selection on the left, then drag it over the staff, releasing it when I hear the pitch I need. Simple.
It’s probably exactly this rudimentary roughness that make composers opt for dedicated notation software!
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I wonder if there’s any chance this behaviour could be added in a future version?
After inputting a note on the staff, it is possible (after switching off Start Note Input) to move it around and fine tune the desired pitch. I guess for that to be possible, then there must be an assumption that the positioning of notes by ear must by something useful to the userbase. So it would be great to at least have the option to have this opportunity to audition note via audiofeedback at the point of initial note entry.
As I said before, I compose by ear. I need to be able to hear a pitch, think ‘yes that’s the pitch I want’, and THEN place the note.
Perhaps I am the only person who might find that useful, I don’t know.
But, if not, is there any chance that this feature could be implemented in a future update?
Thanks
You could try a technique used sometimes by Alan Sylvestri; enter the rhythm on one note. Then you could go back and use ALT/OPT + Arrow Keys to move each pitch up or down and use the left and right arrow keys to change to the next note.
Yes, I am sure there are many work arounds. But the point is not so much that what I want to do is impossible, it’s just that there are more steps involved.
As things are in Cubase Score Editor, I just select the note and place it when it sounds the correct pitch. Then on to the next. Very simple.
It seems that in Dorico, if I want some auditioning of the note, there will always be more steps than my current workflow. And auditioning/tuning will always take place after the note is placed.
My current workflow is pretty much select then click.
Just an additional step or two may not seem like much in a singular instance, but if those extra steps are necessary for each and every note then the whole workflow get’s congested and slower. Especially because the stuff I write strives towards quite big, orchestral, Stravinskyesque stuff - so there are LOTS of notes.
I really hope it’s something that can be included in a future version.
Is there a feature request thread/sub here somewhere in which I can suggest it?
Thanks
Again, being ignorant of Cubase: is it possible to continue working as you have been, then exporting to Dorico to enter the polishing/engraving phase?
Yes, it’s just a shame.
I work in Cubase score editor which is generally known to be so inferior to Dorico, and Dorico has a lot of such useful features such as the extended Expression Map features (things like adding per articulation negative delay etc) , and just that fact that, generally speaking, Dorico is designed so wonderfully for composers of orchestral music… And yet it doesn’t work for me just because of this tiny superficial detail. It’s really frustrating!
Of course I could just shut up and change my workflow! 
But I’m still surprised that something so simple - that would surely be useful to composers who work principally by ear - isn’t even an option.
You are a brave soul my friend! I also use Cubase (and have used Logic too) and their score editors leave so much to be desired, along with hair on the floor after I’ve pulled it all out lol.
Dorico’s system of note input and editing is so much more elegant, especially once you end up doing any complex syncopation or tuplets. And doubling is a breeze, along with shifting notes up and down by intervals and/or diatonically. Especially if you are doing Stravinsky-esque stuff with lots of notes - you’ll find Dorico to be 1000x easier. I hope you will enjoy it and find the workflow that suits you best!
Also sorry to be that guy but have you considered a book or course in sight-singing? If you prefer a notation workflow it might benefit you to connect notation to your mind’s “inner ear” before actually hearing it, making it a lot easier to know what something will sound like first (I know, not the answer you’re looking for here haha!).
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Hehe! You are not that guy at all - at least not in a bad way!
I really SHOULD work on these skills. I’m a bit of a fool really, I’ve been into composing for so long it’s kind of shameful I don’t have a better mental grasp of rudimentary pitch/notation relationships!
I think for those who do have that very reasonable skillset, Dorico is indeed as elegant as you say. But it seems that I have settled into probably the only workflow that renders Dorico’s note entry system demonstrably inelegant!
As I’m someone who - rightly or wrongly - needs to choose pitches by ear, then choosing a note length, dragging it over the staff til I hear the desired pitch, then releasing it, is just about as uncluttered a process as possible. The same thing in Dorico requires too many additional steps.
Unless I get my head together and actually try to improve my skills, then Dorico is, frustratingly, not for me, and I will stick with the Cubase Score Editor.
But if there’s any chance of a mouse input option which allows all the possible pitches to sound before committing to placement, then I would be a delighted little bunny!
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I have heard of more than a couple people who accomplished all their note entry by duplicating the last note and changing it. … I suppose if you did that you wouldn’t need the caret much.
Yeah, I’m sure that’s the way to do it. But it’s just that to subsequently change something is fundamentally an extra step.
It’s fine. Frustrating, but fine!
Dorico has been designed in a way that doesn’t accommodate my workflow. The problem is definitely my workflow, not Dorico. It’s just frustrating because mine is a workflow that could be accommodated by making such a minor change. But then, after a forum search, I am surprised to see that I am probably the only person in the world who has this particular issue. I really thought there would be many composers who would find it useful to have audio feedback to help determine the choice of initial note placement, but it seems not.
So, for the ‘me+Dorico’ system to work, either I or Dorico must change.
Dorico has no need to change, so I will work on me!
In the meantime, back to the lowly but, in my case, weirdly efficient Cubase Score Editor I go.
(But again… if any Dev’s read this… please consider this as an option! 
)
What Derrek says here is one possible option. Enter one note roughly where you might want it and then use Alt+up/down arrow keys to change the pitch while hearing them. (Alt-Shift-up/down if you want chromatic.)
Also, after you have entered a note you can drag it with a mouse and you will then hear the pitch, so if you start just by entering a row of the same note you can then go back and drag them all to where you want them while hearing the pitch.
You could also use a midi keyboard. If you enable the ‘pitch before duration’ option in the left zone then you can play many notes on your midi keyboard and they won’t be entered until you choose a note duration afterwards. E.g. play notes until you hear the one you want and then either click on a crotchet/quaver (quarter note/8th note), or press the numbers on the top of your computer keyboard (e.g. crotchet/quarter = 6, quaver/8th =5 etc).
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It looks like your wish has come true, @jamieboo.
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