Mouse-Zoom broken in Wavelab 11.1.10

I’m getting into Wavelab 11.1.10 right now and I noticed that the zoom with [Ctrl] + [Mouse-Wheel] (both zoom-in and zoom-out) is somewhat flawed - the zoom level is sometimes jumping wildly around. My first concern was about stuttering because of a high resolution, as I just recently switched from WQHD to a 4K display, but since everthing workes fine in Wavelab 10.0.70, there has to be something else. System is Windows 10 Pro, Update 21H2.

After some trying I figured this out:
If I hold my mouse still, zoom works smooth as usual. But as soon as I start moving the mouse while zooming (horizontally, vertically, diagonally … doesn’t matter which way and at which speed), this zoom-jumping occurs. I can reproduce this in a montage as well as in the editor (and here also within each display mode - Waveform, Spectrogram, Wavelet, Loudness - while in the Spectrogram or Wavelet display it’s the most obvious). The same error occurs not only on horizontal zoom (Time-axis; [Ctrl] + [Mouse-Wheel]) but also on vertical zoom (Volume-/Frequency-axis; [Shift] + [Mouse-Wheel]).

PG, can you please look into this?

It’s true that I have changed a couple of things in WaveLab 11.1.10 concerning the mouse wheel handling. But I am not able to reproduce the problem you mention.
Anybody else?

Yes … I have noticed this as well. At first I just thought it was me accidentally touching the shift key as I was scrolling … but it seems a somewhat random behavior.

WL v 11.1.10 (build 39)

Windows 10 Pro, Update 21H2 OS Build 19044.1826 Windows Feature Experience Pack 120.2212.4180.0

The way I can reproduce this the best, is to continuously drag the mouse around and simultaniously do any of the shortcuts ([Ctrl]/[Shift] + [Mouse Wheel]). And as mentioned, for me it is most obvious in Spectrogram/Wavelet display in the Editor (maybe because of higher processing power needed).

Here is a short video. [Ctrl] was pressed the whole time, and at each stroke downwards with the mouse I did about 5-6 mouse-wheel-spins. In the timebar of the waveform on top you can see the light grey view-area jumping around, corresponding to the main view below.

When you press Control and change the mouse wheel, zooming happens centered where the mouse cursor is located in the waveform. Hence this can cause some scrolling. But this is not new. This was already so in WaveLab 10 (but not in some older versions). Hence maybe you mean something else…

Yes, I’m aware of that behavior (which is very good to quickly navigate within a file/montage). But this here is different and an annoying problem.

I know what I did in the video is not my common zooming practice, it is just an extreme approach trying to show what is happening. I usually don’t intentionally move my mouse while zooming, it just happens by chance through finger/hand-movement on a very small scale, but this movement (at the right time, or more like the wrong time) is enough to produce this error. To make it clear, all I did in the video is zooming-out ([Ctrl] + [Wheel-Down]), and still, at some point it is actually zooming in (if you look closely on the upper timebar and the highlighted view-area).
And again, it doesn’t seem to matter which direction I move the mouse, I can move it straight down and the error will occur, too (… well, to be fair, I can’t check how “straight” I actually move my mouse, so maybe no guarantees on that …). If I do the same extreme movements in Wavelab 10.0.70 everything works fine and smooth.

I just did some more testing and I have the feeling, that the faster I spin the mouse-wheel, the more likely the error occurs. I don’t know anything about programming, but could there be an issue with the registration of the key-combination for zoom, when the wheel is spinned too fast, and maybe some further interference while mouse-movement on a certain axis?

I am not seeing things jump around. Only the same effect as eg shift+wheel.

It didn’t do it last night in what was an intensive edit session for a video track. So maybe it’s me doing something like accidentally resting on a shift or ctrl (I use a mechanical gaming keyboard).

Note there is a new feature in WaveLab 11.1.10… if while you press the middle mouse button, you move the mouse wheel, then vertical waveform zooming happens (no need to press Shift).

Ahhhh Thank you .That’s it I was not aware of this change.

When holding CTRL and using the mouse wheel, all of a sudden zooming is way too sensitive and it jumps from a point where I see several seconds of audio on the screen to a point, where I see like 20ms.

So, I just had the idea to test Wavelab on my laptop (also Windows 10 21H2, but obviously other hardware than my desktop PC). It was the first installation of Wavelab on this device, so a clean installation without previous settings. After start I didn’t change any preferences, I just loaded a file into the editor and did a quick zoom test - the same error occurs on my laptop too (and to be clear, I am using a dedicated mouse connected via USB cable with my laptop, I can’t work with touchpads - the mouse is from the same manufacturer as my desktop mouse [Logitech], but an older model).

PG, could you or maybe someone else provide a link for an earlier version of Wavelab 11 (like 11.0.00/10/20/30 or 11.1.00)? As I upgraded as version 11.1.10 was already out, I don’t have any older executables of WL 11. But I’m curious to find out, if this error I’m experiencing, is just with the latest version, or if it also occurs with previous versions of WL 11. The Steinberg Download Assistant and the Steinberg Download website unfortunately both only supply the latest version. I feel like it was once possible to download an older version by manually changing the link from the Steinberg Download site to the appropriate version, but it seems that there is now some sort of specific hash in the server file path … .

PM me

Ok, thanks to Paul_Rat_Blakey I was able to try out Wavelab Pro 11.0.30. I did a quick reinstallation (via the reinstall feature of the installer, no deinstallation) and a quick test with a file and a montage - Version 11.0.30 works perfectly regarding the zoom shortcuts with mouse wheel, just like 10.0.70 does.
After that, just to make sure, I updated to Version 11.1.10 again and I can experience the same error as before. And just to make really sure, I restarted my PC, shut down all unneeded background processes with the Windows Task-Mangager, deleted the content of my Wavelab 11 preference folder and tried 11.1.10 again - but the error still remained.
So whatever is causing this misbehaviour, I can only imagine that it has to be something introduced with the 11.1.00 update, or most likely the 11.1.10 update (as the Version History states, as well as PG, there were introduced some new zoom functions with 11.1.10) …

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Just noticed something else. A somewhat another topic, but still connected to zooming.

I used to be able to press and hold the left mouse button and simultaneously scroll the mouse-wheel to either quickly make a selection (montage and editor) or to move selected clips (montage) along the time axis. This is the case for Wavelab 10.0.70 and also 11.0.30.

In Wavelab 11.1.10, when I press and hold the left mouse button and scroll the mouse-wheel, instead of moving along the time axis, I zoom in or out. I checked the Version History but couldn’t find anything that would indicate this as a new feature, so I’d like to know if this is indeed an intended behavior.
I could see a certain advantage for that, as you don’t need to press another key on the keyboard to zoom, and you still could zoom out and in again to where you want to go. But out of habit I’m heavily using my keyboard, so this function is somewhat redundant and I feel like robbed of the feature to just move along the time axis (when making a selection or moving clips, that is). … And of course, how else could it be, with this behaviour I can experience the same zoom jumps as described above …

This is a new feature indeed. But that does not remove the old one. That is, when you press the wheel button and move the position + spin, you can both grab the view and zoom vertically (hence one can’t say the feature to just move along the time axis was robbed).

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Well, it does in this case. Yes, I can press/hold middle mouse button (wheel button) + move the mouse horizontally to move the viewed position on the time axis (the same thing can be done by just spinning the wheel without any modifier keys, probably since the early versions of Wavelab and like many other applications). I actually can also move the mouse vertically to move around in any direction in a large montage with several tracks, which might be very handy. But this is no new behavior, as I can do that also in Wavelab 10.0.70 (and I have never used it so far).
But what I cannot do with this method, is to drag a selected clip with me or make an ongoing selection while moving on the time axis. I press/hold left mouse button and move the mouse to start a selection or move a clip, and as soon as I press/hold middle mouse button (or even if I just shortly click it), the movement or selection stops on this point (and does not resume after releasing the middle mouse button, while still holding left mouse button) … here a short video:

And here a short video in Wavelab 10.0.70 of what I’m used to, which is not possible in Wavelab 11.1.10 (not via the old method from 10.0.70 or seemingly otherwise).

Not sure what you mean, because of course it is possible to drag/move a clip with WaveLab 11.1.10

Same remark, it is of course possible. I guess I don’t understand what you mean.

Yes, which is normal. And I can’t find a difference with WaveLab 10.

Your nice videos don’t allow me to decipher your case…

Hmmm, how else could I describe what I mean …
If you watch the second video again (which is in Wavelab 10.0.70), at the start I press the left mouse button and hold it (indicated by the little “Hold” in the keylogger window in top left corner) and move the red Edit Cursor with the mouse a bit to make a selection, then additionally I spin the mouse wheel upwards (also indicated by “Wheel [Arrow Up]”) to move on the time axis from about 2h55mn to about 2h25mn. Then I just undo the selection (by left clicking anywhere outside the selection), select some clips instead and did the same procedure as before, only with mouse wheel down. In 11.1.10 this is not possible anymore the same way.

Maybe another approach…
I am able to navigate the time axis by spinning the mouse-wheel up or down, so that the visible area of a file or montage changes accordingly without any zoom happening, simply horizontally scrolling along the time ruler - to make it clear, that is what I mean by “moving on the time axis” in this context, not the movement of the red Edit Cursor or something else. That is true for every version of Wavelab I have used, including of course 11.1.10, just this simple navigation aspect. I hope we are on the same level of understanding so far.

In 11.0.30 and previous, I can actually make a selection or move clips around (initiated by press/hold left mouse button) while doing this simple navigation. …
The only thing I didn’t notice actively until just now is, that a tiny bit of mouse movement (= Edit Cursor movement) seems to be needed to update the position of moved clips or the end of the selection… So I guess there is no moving just through scrolling along the time ruler alone, it always needs some sort of cursor/mouse movement … which seems also true in 11.1.10.

Still, since in 11.1.10 the combination [hold left mouse button] + [spin mouse wheel] overpowers the command [spin wheel] and leads to zooming, the method from 11.0.30 and previous is not possible anymore - I cannot navigate the time axis (= scroll along the time ruler) WITHOUT zooming, WHILE pressing left mouse button (to select something or move clips).
Do you get my point now?

I’m not saying, that this new behavior in Wavelab 11.1.10 is bad or useless in general. There must be a reason why you integrated this, and might be even pretty good, if I could get used to it. Right now, I’m just so used to the older behavior and I would imagine that I am not alone with this. Also I don’t know of any other application, that uses this combination for a similar function either. If I needed to zoom while rearranging clips in a montage, I just additionally hit [CTRL] for that moment, no big deal, but sometimes that zoom is just unnecessary…

That is true and I will not argue with that. I guess I would have just expected a change in 11.1.10.

Ok, now I get it. I never thought this was actually possible :slight_smile:
I will see if I can reintroduce this feature in WaveLab 11.1.20.

Philippe

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Hehe, shouldn’t you know the best as developer? :slight_smile:
But thanks, I’d be happy to work again as usual.

Regarding my initial problem, is there anything else I could do to help you figure out the problem?