I have to say, I just bought the upgrade to 6.5, and I’ve VERY DISAPPOINTED freewarp isn’t available on multiple tracks or groups. This is a pretty standard feature in ProTools since… what 7.4 (4 years ago) !?
I can’t say how important this tool is to me. Is there any chance this will be coming out in an update soon? I will use the “bounce to 5.1 and bounce back to mono” technique for now. But being able to simply grab a guitar note on 2-3 tracks, or a snare AND the overheads and move it over a little bit is absolutely amazing in ProTools.
You’re probably looking at a lost customer if something like this isn’t avialable soon, and I know I’m not the only one that NEEDS this feature.
But being able to simply grab a guitar note on 2-3 tracks, or a snare AND the overheads and move it over a little bit is absolutely amazing in ProTools.
But to record properly in the first place you don’t need to warp that much. It might be absolutely amazing…
for five minutes for about 98% of recording engineers. And the other 2% use it once a year.
And the more things you move at once the more chance of artifacts being introduced. But I have to agree it’s a nice toy.
Yes, but if you’re mixing a progressive metal band that is playing very complicated stuff, that 5 minutes group free warp could easily equal hours of doing each track individually. I know because that’s what I had to do for most of it.
Multi-track free warp will be difficult to implement without introducing phasing artifacts. The way the stretch algorithm works…it doesn’t make the same decisions on which pieces to “cut and paste” or delete at a micro level on every piece of material. That will mean possible phasing on your drumtracks where there is bleed, unless the algorithm is forced to do the micro edits the same across all tracks. Possible.
If they’ve done that much work already then they won’t mind another take or O/dub. They will mind an engineer who doesn’t know how to get it right first time and lets them go through an imperfect take.
And if it’s live it’s usually better left as is or abandoned.
And if you can do it with the present Cubase and the tools you got now then write down how you did it and tell the world and then the software makers will have an idea of what the steps are that they have to reproduce.
You might have one way to do it and Bob Clearmountain another.
You want someone to invent something for you you have to at least have the wit to describe it more fully than “Golly, gee I’d love a pair of wings!”
Fizbin’s got it. But that’s arty facts for you.
Ha! Just took notice of this. 5 minutes group free warp
Five minutes!? The band is that BAD ?! Come on. They do progressive metal. Or did they just tell you that’s what it was?
I think either I didn’t explain it very well, English isn’t your first language, or you’re just another asshat troll that has no business posting on the forums. “it would take about 5 minutes” to fix a drum track could take a lot longer if you have to do Kick, Snare, 2 Overheads, hats, and Room indivdually every time you needed to shift something. I was talking about the time it would take on the post mix, not the time a note would need to stretch.
And if you track guitars to drums, and you want to be able to shift them all a little bit, it’s useful there as well. Just try track drums that are a little off and try punching in quantized midi parts. You’ll understand.
It honestly sounds to me like you’ve never tried recording and mixing a full drum kit with someone who’s playing rather complicated stuff. This stuff is complicated enough that advanced quantize can’t correct it. So there are times when I need to move stuff with free warp. And ya, obviously a perfect take would be ideal, but eventually you’ll realize that not everyone is perfect. It’s a HUGE time saver to catch a handful of mistakes and correct them quickly with free warp, rather than trying to punch it in. Also you’re not going to catch things at tracking and they NEED to be fixed later, maybe when the drummer isn’t avaiable. So re-tracking isn’t an option. Some of my artists come from over 4 hours away.
And I’m not asking Steinberg to “invent” something. This has been standard on ProTools for over 4 years. I guess the “industry standard” of DAW’s felt it necessary to implement in 2008. And I guess they figured it out with anybody complaining too much about phase artifacts. “phase artifacts” is a really stupid excuse. Plus this isn’t only used on drums. I sometimes track guitar with 4 sources at a time.
I can’t believe someone would be fighting against a feature this useful to be implemented in their software.
Not at all. Multiple workstations do it now with no phase issues. They just use the larger transients as a guide the exact same way Cubase does when group editing multitrack drums by splitting, to keep everything in phase. Instead of splits there are perfectly aligned transient markers across al tracks. Works pretty well in practice actually and it keeps things pretty tidy without all the splits, not to mention reducing strain on the graphic drawing for 1000 regions when you don’t split up your 12 tracks of drums over 4 minutes.
As to the other comment about “toy” (not your comment) It’s about as much of a toy as Cubase’s single track warping, which would be … 0%. These are “multitrack” editors after all… so… multitrack warp seems logical.
Not only do these methods not have phasing issues, some of them even wrap the transients of drums to not stretch the transient, so it all sounds better than a normal stretch where drum transients are beng stretched.
Unfortunately, some people can only ever reference their own limited experiences or use cases and they take potshots at anything outside of that as being unnecessary. It never even occurs to some of them there are times when re-tracking a performance or a track isn’t even an option. If it was really just that simple we wouldn’t really need audio quantize, warp, Variaudio, Beat Detective or most of the similar stuff we collectively already have and find use for at various times.
Chalk it up as a defensive reaction and forget about it.
I play drums and have recorded them for many years both analog and digital. It’s not rocket science. It’s a piece of cake.
I can’t believe an experienced serious engineer would bother making this much fuss over a mild ribbing.
So it’s standard on Por-Tools. So you can’t afford that then?
I am not fighting against the feature. I am telling you why it won’t be working here soon and you are BSing.
So your artists live four hours away? What? All of them? Artists find time and artists rehearse until they can’t get it wrong. You mean you work with people who can’t do their job properly? I’d have understood that twenty years ago but all the kids I see around me now are sharp as buttons. Drums tracked and out in a half hour and just the odd tweak here and there, no sweat.
Commercials? Well they all do use Pro Tools.
We’d all like free warp but we don’t sulk and whine with I’m “VERY DISAPPOINTED” after 4 posts in. And you call me a troll. There’s a trail of “very disappointed” 4 posters leading out of this forum.
Slightly disappointed but it’s not that big a deal.
Calm down.
And I see I’m being followed around by my fans again.
I’m fighting against what exactly? Someone wanting a new TOY. You can retrack easily with existing tools.
It might be necessary to a very few but the only thing I’m fighting against is unnecessary wailing and gnashing of teeth about something so minor. I suppose it’d be good to show off to kids visiting the studio though.
HEY! I’ve changed my mind. I Want One!
Conman, you do write some helpful posts, I know. But, as you’ve no doubt noticed, you’ve often been called a troll in this forum; and I’ve not noticed anyone else being called a troll as often as you’ve been.
Something must have been causing that.
Assuming you’re not actually a troll, there must be something in the way you write that gives a misleading impression.
---- If it bothers you to be called a troll repeatedly, you could try changing the way you write – otherwise, it seems to me that you’ll carry on being called a troll because of what you say and the way you say it.
---- If, on the other hand, it doesn’t bother you to be called a troll, why not just accept that it’s going to happen and stop remarking about it when it does happen?
Lol. I read that thread a few days ago. That’s why I brought it up again. Maybe if you actually read something you just referenced, you’d see that it wasn’t implemented. Whoever posted that mistook the feature notes for something else. And if it was implemented a year ago, then maybe someone can show me how to use it properly? And you obviously not the person because you have no clue, or you would have said “it was already implemented”. This isn’t a “TOY”… this is a useful tool. Go get some studio experience and come back before you continue your childish babbling.
“Just because you reference a quote from another forum post doesn’t make your argument valid.”
-Benjamin Franklin
Again, this isn’t just limited to drums. This is useful on all kinds of multiple source instruments. So you can stop talking about how you can track your drums and it’s no that hard and blah blah blah blah… Like I said, sometimes these guys only get one open weekend to track drums. So they drive out here, track for a day or two and go back home. And sometimes we spend that entire time tracking, and don’t necessarily have time to catch every mistake. If that was everyone’s mentality, why use a DAW? Just track to tape.
Protools 10 is the same price as Cubase 6.5. Just go buy an 11R that comes with it and you’re all set. So I had a choice in my DAW, and I chose Cubase for a reason. But this is the first real feature of Protools that I miss.
Anyway. This isn’t going anywhere. I was hoping for an intelligent comment from Steinberg or someone that was actually familiar with 6.5’s new features. Instead I got someone trying to speak for them.
I guess for now I’ll either use the 5.1 editing bounced back to multiple mono. Or I’ll do my editing in separate projects and use the tempo map to make the edits.
Found a decent tutorial that is showing partly what I was looking for. Hitpoint editing from the main editing window instead of going into each track individually. This will at least get me 90% of what I need.
“Protools 10 is the same price as Cubase 6.5. Just go buy an 11R that comes with it and you’re all set. So I had a choice in my DAW, and I chose Cubase for a reason. But this is the first real feature of Protools that I miss.”
Sorry, the quote function sucks on the iPhone. Had to do it myself.
True, PT is bigtime in audio but sucks as a sequencer. So I think it’s not really
a good comparison. I’d miss so many Midi functions there.
Cubase started as a sequencer, pro tools as a mtk system.
And though they’re having their arms race today, you sometimes
still notice where they come from (like in this case).
Still this is a useful feature. So +1.
And +1 for the audiowarp in the arrange window!
