I agree. Neither solution is idea but MuseSounds strings are at the very least more expressive and for most – though not all – music I’ve heard tonally more realistic. Results I’ve heard from this library are extremely varied (unlike NotePerformer which is immediately recognisable) and it seems a certain amount of work needs to be put in to show it at its best
You can of course use NotePerformer to control another library with more realistic strings, like BBCSO.
The word “just” is doing a lot of heavy lifting there. 
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If someone would just hire a live string section for me when I am dissatisfied with NP strings. 
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Creating a VSTi off the samples is actually pretty simple (albeit a lot of work). My understanding is that there are tools that can extract all of the individual sample content from Muse Sounds spitting out the raw audio WAV files. From that point, those WAV files can be reprogrammed and mapped in a sampler like Kontakt.
However, there is nothing that special about these samples. Not that they’re badly recorded, they’re just pretty ordinary, and not particularly deep sampling. The Muse Sounds engine itself is where the magic is, with all these complex proprietary morphing filters to simulate dynamics in between the sampled dynamics, simulating legato where legato was not recorded, and doing all sorts of other things. So even if you went through the trouble of extracting the samples, making your own VSTi, it wouldn’t have all the morphing filters that are part of the Muse Sounds engine. So the result could use the same sounds, but be much worse, maybe at best on par with Halion Symphonic Orchestra, if that. I doubt it would be as good as Iconica Sketch. An awful lot of work to go through to end up with something worse than you already had.
Even if you did all that, it’s not legally allowed by their license agreement, where they would forbid users (even if it is possible) from extracting the samples. Meaning, someone who did this would go through all this work, and end up with a second-rate VST instrument worse than the other options on the market and one that wouldn’t hold a candle to what Muse Sounds can do in MuseScore, and not be able to share it with anybody otherwise they would likely be sued by Muse Group.
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Interestingly, Muse just announced that they have now (paid) premium third-party libraries available on their Muse Engine technology, namely:
- Berlin libraries & First Chairs by Orchestral Tools
- Symphony libraries & Chamber Strings by Spitfire Audio
- Cine libraries & VOXOS Epic Choirs by Cinesamples
Surely only the beginning, but it might be indicating that they are opening up the platform. So maybe there could be some Dorico integration possible in the future
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That sounds more like what Noteperformer does. I don’t see that this would lead to Dorico integration.
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This isn’t a totally new thing as it might seem. The Muse Engine technology has always had these types of third party libraries available on StaffPad. They recently added Muse Sounds to the StaffPad version (at first StaffPad only had these third party libraries), and so it only makes sense that they would add the third party libraries to MuseScore as well.
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They might formalize open more of the spec to let third-party providers publish their libraries.
But you are right, opening it up to other hosts is likely another story
This isn’t like what NotePerformer does at all.
The way StaffPad did it (and the way presumably this works as well) is that Muse Group licensed the underlying WAV file samples from the vendor, and reprogrammed the raw samples themselves for the Muse Engine playback. So you would actually buy “Berlin Series for StaffPad” from StaffPad and it wouldn’t be the regular product, it would be the same samples taken and re-edited by the StaffPad team. The underlying WAV samples are the official ones from the vendor (so they are the same as in Berlin Series etc), but everything else (the programming, the transitions, etc.) was done by the StaffPad team and is completely different from the actual Berlin Series or whatever.
NotePerformer on the other hand acts as a “shim” between the notation program and the library, so it is still the regular library you are driving.
It has always been the case that if you pay to license these StaffPad sounds, it would not give you any sort of license on the full libraries, or vice versa.
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Thanks for explaining.
I don’t think that the “muse sounds” packs on staffpad are the same kind of file…. But maybe.
They are, it’s the same playback engine. The technology used in Muse Sounds was originally developed for StaffPad, that’s why Muse acquired StaffPad in the first place.
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That makes sense. Care to speculate on why they acquired Audacity? I think that’s a different case. I don’t see any leading technologies in Audacity. But it does have a very large user base because it is simple and free. Maybe they feel like they can develop Audacity into a proper DAW, albeit a rather basic one, at a reasonable cost. And if they do that carefully, maybe they can bring most of the user base along.
Of course, if they make it too complicated, then people might look at Reaper or the other low cost DAWs that are far more capable than Audacity.
I suppose the same question can be asked of the Hal-Leonard acquisition. Surely they don’t expect the H-L catalog contributors to stop using Finale/Sibelius/Dorico and publish with Muse. But they may be thinking about a meta-level publishing environment where some of the capabilities of Muse and Audacity might be put to work in a next-generation online delivery system.
Regarding Staffpad, it began with such promise, but seems to have stagnated. I continue to believe there could be real demand for a notation program UI that can be driven with a pen.
I would say this is the reason. Nothing that special about Audacity, it’s a good free audio editor. It is also open source, and so it is low hanging fruit. Lots of people have it installed, and if they use Muse Hub to install it, its also easy for them to install MuseScore.
I think it wouldn’t make much sense to turn Audacity into a DAW of any sort.
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Although I was thinking about asking about Muse Sounds support for Audacity Midi…
Well, they already are. They have added VST support and are allowing some non-destructive edits. It is far from a “real DAW” at this point, but is inching that direction.
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More of an audio file DAW than a MIDI DAW. Especially with VST fx.
That just makes it more like WaveLab, which isn’t a DAW either but does both of those.
I think this may help, but the project may need your help: https://github.com/CarlGao4/Muse-Sounds
This may give a solution with SFZ format, you can use Sforzando to use it as a VST plugin.
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I find MuseSounds hit or miss. One area it excels above and beyond over NotePerformer, Halion etc is choir sounds. I took a simple choir piece I wrote in Dorico (just oohs/aahs) and imported it into MuseScore using MusicXML. The difference was completely night and day. I’ve also played around with the Cineseries Voxos on Staff Pad. It’s significantly better for choir sounds.
However, I had so many issues with dynamics it wasn’t all roses.
As for everything else orchestral, I find it’s a little all over the map. One plus side it has going are a few unique articulations, more support for extended technique stuff like doits, falls, multiphonics, and microtonal bends.
When it works, it sounds great. The demos are seductive in how fantastic they sound. But having played with both MuseScore and StaffPad, I have found it can really struggle with even the most basic articulations and every day writing! Dynamics and hairpins are a disaster. Legato, on strings especially, can be uncontrollably slow (excessive and constant portamento where not desired, or where a real player would cross strings, not do a shift let alone an exagerrated one). It also has a tendency to add portamento to detached unslurred notes where a player would never even shift. Wind instruments have a nice realism but sometimes a distracting and robotic level of key and breath noises. Intended to add realism but I often find it distracting especially when it sounds on the same note in the same way. Brass is a bit of a mess.
I understand that Muse wants to push their products such as MuseScore and StaffPad but I think it would behoove them to market MuseSounds as a VST for people looking to use it in other software including DAWs. Surely there would be a larger market to branch out beyond their limited notation software. I’m sure that’s easier said than done, but in my comparisons between MuseSounds and NotePerformer, I find that MS might have some momentary wow-factor, but that quickly fades when you realize how much it struggles in many areas, and while NP may not sound as WOW out the box it will provide consistent, dependable results.
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