Music Fonts: no argue about taste, just curious

[RoelVanWijk]

Hi nice people!
I’m just curious. I like Bravura for my classical projects, but does anyone here have a clear opinion on a modern, friendly alternative? A bit more sleek, but still conservative enough for good sight reading? Looking forward to your responds!

[FredGUnn]

Any music font must be SMuFL compatible in order to be used in Dorico, so here’s a list of a bunch of them:

Introducing SMuFL

I think that list is a bit out of date, as @Nordine has a few more now:

NorFonts.ma – Professional Engraver and Handwritten Music Fonts

Golden Age (converted by @benwiggy) too:

GitHub - benwiggy/GoldenAge: A SMuFL update to a handwritten style of music...

Some of the MTF fonts have now been converted to SMuFL (by @dan_kreider) and released through Notation Central:

Music Fonts - Notation Central

Keep in mind that not every SMuFL font carries the full set of glyphs that Bravura does. The Finale fonts are only semi-compatible with chord symbols for example as they are missing certain glyphs in the locations where Dorico is expecting them.

[dan_kreider]

I love Sebastian by @benwiggy and have used it for several projects.

[Janus]

@RoelVanWijk

I like Bravura for my classical projects, but does anyone here have a clear opinion on a modern, friendly alternative? A bit more sleek, but still conservative enough for good sight reading?

Which of your needs are not satisfied by Bravura? And what is your definition of modern or sleek?

I’m not a font nerd. Though, as a practicing musician I abhor handwritten fonts, whereas Bravura is just easy on my eye and easy to play at sight. Could you perhaps explain how a different font would improve the quality of your music?

[RoelVanWijk]

To be completely honest, I’d like have my score just look a bit different from any other score in Dorico. Just my ego I might better stick to Bravura, but I’m considering Sebastan, also on my list in Dorico. What’s your opinion?

Handwritten font I stricly use for bigband and other jazz applications. In my experience almost all jazz musicians find that easier to read.

[benwiggy]

@RoelVanWijk

I’m considering Sebastan, also on my list in Dorico. What’s your opinion?

Well, I like it.

[judddanby]

@RoelVanWijk

Handwritten font I stricly use for bigband and other jazz applications. In my experience almost all jazz musicians find that easier to read.

Here’s a cautionary tale from the forum’s @FredGUnn that you might want to consider:

Narrow chord font

I’ve done exactly one copying job with Jazz font and it was for the Carnegie Hall Jazz Band in the 90s when it first came out. Obviously these were musicians who had spent their entire lives reading actual hand copied music so I thought they would like it. They hated it! “What the hell is this?!? A computer pretending to be handcopied?!?” Of course Jazz font is particularly illegible and the noteheads are tiny. Jon Faddis said to never use it again for the band so I didn’t. F…

[FredGUnn]

LOL! Yeah, I never use “handwritten” fonts for jazz. Some, like Finale Jazz, are particularly illegible. Clarity of layout and readability should be goals of any decent copyist so making something less legible has never been a priority of mine.

(In the story above, Frank Wess already had “Coke bottle” glasses by this point in his career, so he really couldn’t deal with Jazz font. I copied for his Octet/Nonet too periodically up until 2010 or so.)

[judddanby]

(OT Humor)

@FredGUnn

Clarity of layout and readability should be goals of any decent copyist so making something less legible has never been a priority of mine.

I strive for visual clarity and intelligibility in my scores and parts in order to keep the focus properly on the murkiness and unintelligibility of my musical ideas.

[benwiggy]

@RoelVanWijk

Handwritten font I stricly use for bigband and other jazz applications. In my experience almost all jazz musicians find that easier to read.

I don’t mind handwritten fonts when they look like someone took hours to produce beautiful copy; but most of them seem to be aiming for “We need 20 parts in 2 hours”.

(Don’t get me started on using computers to make things look like The Real Book…)

@FredGUnn

Yeah, I never use “handwritten” fonts for jazz. Some, like Finale Jazz, are particularly illegible. Clarity of layout and readability should be goals of any decent copyist so making something less legible has never been a priority of mine

I understand that Berklee now specifies ‘engraved’ font styles over handwritten.

[Maarten_Kruijswijk]

@RoelVanWijk

Handwritten font I stricly use for bigband and other jazz applications. In my experience almost all jazz musicians find that easier to read.

I don’t believe this either. I think it’s a kind of belief and misconception that the music swings more with a handwritten font.

Especially in jazz practice it is often dark and a font as bright as possible is best I think. Bravura is good at that in my opinion.

@RoelVanWijk

To be completely honest, I’d like have my score just look a bit different from any other score in Dorico. Just my ego

To make your scores and parts consistently personal you can best look at all information design outside of the music.

Anyway for what it’s worth that’s my opinion.

[FredGUnn]

@benwiggy

I understand that Berklee now specifies ‘engraved’ font styles over handwritten.

I hadn’t heard that yet, but that would be an interesting development!

@Maarten_Kruijswijk

To make your scores and parts consistently personal you can best look at all information design outside of the music.

Agreed! After a couple of copying reference books, I think most copyists would be well served reading things like Robert Bringhurst’s The Elements of Typographic Style and Edward Tufte’s Envisioning Information.

[Maarten_Kruijswijk]

@FredGUnn

The Elements of Typographic Style

Great tip, just ordered the Dutch translation.

[judddanby]

@benwiggy

I understand that Berklee now specifies ‘engraved’ font styles over handwritten.

I’m enjoying the historical irony of the birthplace of the Real Book (which seems to have sparked the “handwritten” fonts craze, at least in jazz circles) advising that scores not look like it.

[benwiggy]

@FredGUnn

Edward Tufte’s Envisioning Information.

If I remember, Tufte recommends that staff lines should be thin like grid lines on graph paper, because he sees them as “background” information. I’m not convinced he’s that familiar with the finer points of music notation.

[FredGUnn]

Yeah, I’m not at home to check, but I remember that too. Definitely disagree with him on that one! He only discusses music on a couple of pages IIRC but had really thin lines that I think hurt legibility. I found it useful just in terms of learning how the brain processes info and how to present things in a way to draw the eye.

[judddanby]

@benwiggy

If I remember, Tufte recommends that staff lines should be thin like grid lines on graph paper, because he sees them as “background” information. I’m not convinced he’s that familiar with the finer points of music notation.

@FredGUnn

Yeah, I’m not at home to check, but I remember that too. Definitely disagree with him on that one! He only discusses music on a couple of pages IIRC but had really thin lines that I think hurt legibility. I found it useful just in terms of learning how the brain processes info and how to present things in a way to draw the eye.

Rather tangentially related to clarity in pure music notation — and certainly way off the OP’s topic (apologies as needed, @RoelVanWijk): For anyone preparing music theory examples (using Dorico or otherwise), Eric Isaacson’s Visualizing Music (Indiana University Press, 2023) is a really deep dive and excellent examination of how to present complex ideas (generalized pitch spaces; musical time; texture; musical analyses, etc.) with greater visual clarity.

[FredGUnn]

@judddanby

Eric Isaacson’s Visualizing Music

I wasn’t aware of that one. Just ordered it, thanks!

[jesele]

@FredGUnn

Just ordered it

But of course you did.

Jesper

[RoelVanWijk]

Sorry, lovely people, I don’t understand a single thing about what you are saying. I’dm gonna try Sebastian, and my jazz scores will be Petaluma (if I remember correctly). My collegues and I here in a piece of the world where everyone seems to have lost their minds all prefer fake-handwritten scores. No Berklee can change that. Not here in this apparently undereducated part of Europe.