Mystery CC "Gen Purp" Data being sent to my hardware synths causing them to go haywire

[wing]

I recently set up some hardware synths to be used as External Instruments, routing the audio and midi respectively. As for the midi setup, I am not worried about using custom panels, I just wanted to get them connected, so I basically created each one with settings like so:

All seemed well at first, until I started noticing while playing that my synths would randomly change settings and in crazy ways, pitch sweeping, suddenly super fast LFOs, etc. In my limited working knowledge of midi, I knew there had to be some kind of CC data being sent to them. After much investigation and using the Midi Monitor, I finally found the random CC data is both CC16, “Gen Purp 1,” and CC19, “Gen Purp 2”, as seen here:

And to be sure, I looked up midi CC tables for each of my synths to see what CC16 and 19 do, and sure enough, I could observe the effects (for example I have one synth where CC16 is mapped to MOD Depth > Oscillator Pitch, so after resetting a patch as soon as I get a message, it’s a very obvious pitch sweep every time).

I have made sure the only thing going to these synths is my one midi controller, port 1 channel 1 - nothing else is going to them.

I can also confirm that if I use the same midi controller on the synths using another DAW (I tested with Logic), that the issue does not happen. I also placed an external midi monitor on my midi controller to observe any messages coming directly from it - and I never saw anything from CC 16 or 19. Therefore I feel confident in saying that the data is coming from somewhere within Cubase.

Thinking perhaps I could use an input transformer to filter out the messages, I tried the following:

But even after this, the messages were still getting through to the synths and I could see Gen Purp 1 and Gen Purp 4 appear randomly on the Midi Monitor for each synth. So I’m at my wit’s end here, I can’t figure out where the data is coming from, and the way it happens randomly and frequently makes it so that I can’t use my hardware synths on any projects until I get this sorted.

Thanks to anyone for reading all this and if you can help me!

[Johnny_Moneto]

Cubase can create MIDI out of nothing only in a limited amount of places. Mainly MIDI Inserts come to mind. This would, of course, require having a plugin loaded like so…

Another possibility is that you have configured either MIDI Remote or Generic Remote and that a VST component, like a plugin, is sending a data change to the remote configuration, which in return chnages it into CC16 or CC19 and sends it to the defined MIDI output.

[wing]

Hmm. I’m pretty new to Cubase (coming from Logic & ProTools before), so I haven’t spent a whole lot of time messing around or setting things up. I feel like what you’re describing though would’ve required an intentional setup which I would’ve been aware of (rather than something accidentally flipped while setting up my midi devices, for example). If I’m understanding you correctly, I would’ve had to manually enabled and configured such things.

I opened my Midi Remote window and it is blank:

I can also confirm there are no additional midi inserts of any kind other than the midi monitors I had added today to investigate.

Wondering if there is some way in which I set up the Midi Devices incorrectly that may have invited this issue? I did those last year and if I recall for a few I had tried to download some midi device setups which I found other users had built for those specific synths, for example. Thinking that could be the root of the problem and I would be better off starting from scratch for all of them just to be sure.

[Johnny_Moneto]

I would not be aware of MIDI Devices sending out MIDI data without you actually touching its panel on screen.
I gathered from your text that you don’t even have a panel defined yet, so I think we can rule out MIDI Devices.

@wing

I feel like what you’re describing though would’ve required an intentional setup

Yes, Cubase was not designed to randomly send MIDI events out to the world. In the past some users had weird results because they forgot that they actually set up something, that is why I mentioned the possibilities what could be the root cause of the trouble.

Generic Remote can be found in Studio → Studio Setup.

[wing]

@Johnny_Moneto

I gathered from your text that you don’t even have a panel defined yet

I hadn’t, at least on my own accord since I don’t have time to really figure that sort of thing out. However, I do recall last year, starting one of the devices by importing a midi panel someone had created. I own a handful of synths but can’t remember exactly which one that might’ve been for, and even looking at the existing devices in the device editor window it’s not really possible for me to tell. Nonetheless, most of them were set up quite simply using the basic “Create New Device” window, with basic CC parameters I know I would use selected.

I am not sure if it would be worth mentioning that a lot of my synths are modern and I have opted to use their USB ports for midi instead of classic midi DIN connections, primarily for reasons of accessing their software panels. This likely has no bearing on the matter but in case it does, I am mentioning it (it could be a coincidence but all the synths going haywire happen to be USB-midi-based).

@Johnny_Moneto

Yes, Cubase was not designed to randomly send MIDI events out to the world. In the past some users had weird results because they forgot that they actually set up something, that is why I mentioned the possibilities what could be the root cause of the trouble.

I think the above mentioned panels might be the only thing I somewhat forgot about, but other than that, I definitely know I didn’t mess about setting up remotes or anything like that, intentionally or by poking around in there (which I wouldn’t personally do).

When I opened Studio Setup, there is no Generic Remote listed, and it says “No Midi Remote controller available”:

I checked through the othere existing remotes there, nothing which seems to pertain to CC data nor the ports/channels in question. The Mackie Control listed there is for my SSL UF8 mixer which uses a handful of virtual midi ports to access the Mackie Protocol, but I checked there and seems nothing fishy going on.

Finally I had a closer look at my midi controller. I’ve set up Cubase’s Midi Monitor as well as another mac app called Midi View to basically monitor within Cubase and then the midi controller only. Of course when I sit and watch nothing happens lol. But if it does happen, having both monitors open will help me determine without a doubt whether or not it is from within Cubase or perhaps it could be the controller.

On that note I opened my controller’s standalone setup software - it’s Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S49 mk2 by the way – and the top knobs have templates for CC which I never use, including the CC’s in question:

So then I thought maybe the knobs are really sensitive and the slighest movement of wind in the room is causing them to react. Definitely not - they are pretty firm and I tested by poking them and nothing happens – point being I would really have to intentionally wrap my fingers around the knobs and turn them.

Could any of these midi ports be a possible culprit (even though I’m only using the midi controller port 1 ch 1 to send to each synth)?

PlugSearch doesn’t need to be there for example, that’s a Logic virtual midi thing etc. Really hoping I can confidently root out the culprit for good, it seems to be behaving for now but I can’t have it going off right in the middle of a recording session obviously!

[wing]

Google hasn’t resulted in much regarding this, but there are actually a handful or results for "komplete kontrol random CC data", and the very first result sounds somewhat similar, as they are also using cubase - Komplete Kontrol S61 mk2 sends random expression CC — Community

I’ve not played around with the pedal settings, but I do have a sustain pedal connected.

[m.c]

@wing

So then I thought maybe the knobs are really sensitive and the slighest movement of wind in the room is causing them to react

This is what I notice here on my S MK2. Two knobs are giving this behaviour, very tiny changes.
I would suggest experimenting with the “Empty” template you have, and alter the midi channel of CC16-19 to something else, say, channel 10. This way, IF the messages are indeed coming from the MK2, the channel will show up in the MIDI Monitor, and at least you’ll know the cause.

[wing]

Thanks! I was thinking that, but then the challenge is finding open/unused CC’s that would be free on all my synths (since most of these can’t be modified on the synth-side) - i.e., I could choose an empty one like CC10 for one synth, but then discover CC10 is actually a crucial setting on another synth. But just opening it again I discovered actually each button can be set to “Assign: Off” -

So maybe I’ll save my empty template with all of these set to off. Somewhat funny I bought this keyboard years ago for all these bells and whistles and the NKS screen control and found myself never using them haha…

Also I just opened Native Access to realize I haven’t updated Komplete Kontrol in at least a year – so I went ahead and ran an update, maybe it will fix the issue, who knows. Fingers crossed it goes away!

[m.c]

@wing

I haven’t updated Komplete Kontrol in at least a year – so I went ahead and ran an update, maybe it will fix the issue

Not sure about this issue, but if you plan (from what you write I don’t think so) to use the Komplete Kontrol plugin, it’s better to stay to earlier versions. My knobs ghost movements are not firmware/software related, it’s a physical case unfortunately. Very very tiny but it’s there. And it’s not my only controller with this, I have other from other vendors as well. They told me it may be the humidity of the room. This of course is no excuse since I have hardware synths from the 80’s working as expected

[wing]

@m.c

Not sure about this issue, but if you plan (from what you write I don’t think so) to use the Komplete Kontrol plugin, it’s better to stay to earlier versions. My knobs ghost movements are not firmware/software related, it’s a physical case unfortunately. Very very tiny but it’s there. And it’s not my only controller with this, I have other from other vendors as well. They told me it may be the humidity of the room. This of course is no excuse since I have hardware synths from the 80’s working as expected

Haha, well, too late I guess! Hopefully it won’t create other issues having updated. I suppose I could find a way to rollback the version but hoping I won’t have to.

Yes I have other synths and midi controllers in the room with a lot more sensitive controls - and they don’t give me problems! But I will say I tested a handful of times by realllly bumping these knobs hard, the only way I could get them to react was to grab and turn. I have plenty of complaints for NI as a company but I will say one thing I have liked about NI’s hardware is that the knobs and switches are very meaty and firm, for lack of better words. I’ve had previous controllers with knobs that are basically a wimpy cheap piece of plastic on a toothpick, where if I even moved an inch the breeze would probably cause it to fall off (kidding of course, but it always seemed like it!)