I think it was mentioned earlier in the thread related with how channel nomenclature is different depending countries/continent.
I’d like to think it will be ironed out.
There seems to be no good answers only more complications. I got the email below from the tech setting up my new system. I posted it here and while it has been read there have been no responses.
As a retired tech I plan on testing both encoders (renderers) and see what the difference in performance there are. …s
Steve - I just want to give you a quick update on the template, as it seems a bit more involved. Using the dolby audio bridge to communicate from Nuendo to the renderer, disables the Lynx inputs into Nuendo as you can only use one core audio driver at a time in Nuendo. I’m trying to set up an aggregate i/o between the dolby audio bridge and the Lynx driver, so that you can have audio coming in from protools into Nuendo and send it to the renderer through dolby audio bridge. Then from from the renderer back into Nuendo throug the audio bridge, but at the same time sending it out to the Lynx for monitoring purposes. This seems a little unstable, but it might work. I’m hoping to get this done today.
Can you explain your setup? I think you are on PC. If you are in Nuendo, you don’t want to produce Atmos internally? Why the bridge? For Pro Tools? Then you do indeed need two PCs with a Dante bridge. Is that what you are trying to do?
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I have been working for over a year using my Eventide digital processors and my 10 year old Pro Tools HD/TCM developing an algorithm to up-mix 2-channel stereo and 5.1 films to 9.1.4.
The HP3000 Workstation that runs pro tools is showing it’s age and I am very turned off by the subscription direction taken by Avid.
Rather then replace all my converters and software and still be able to utilize all the latest plug-ins I made the decision to upgrade to a fully loaded Mac and Nuendo 12.
My concept is to use what I am getting on pro tools and use it for a source on N12. There is no renderer made for 10 year old pro tools…
My plan is to record what I have made on PT 7.4 as well as the original source on N12 and work on the tracks and render from there. Hence I can shut down PT.
I am retired so this is not a commercial endeavor but a chance to work with the latest technology…s
I understand. So, you print the stems and put it into Nuendo 12 to mix in surround. That’s fine.
For Pro Tools, the Studio version has everything you need now for Atmos, except for me, being on PC, it’s not okay.
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I know. Pro Tools has been turning me off for years and this subscription thing was the final straw. Most of Hollywood is on Macs so why not. When I got my PT on a PC I was the first in Hollywood 
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I just contacted my mastering engineer (he does Dolby Atmos) and he tells me that simply physically reversing, for listening, in Cubase or Nuendo, the rear and side channels is sufficient for proper operation. No impact on the rendering. We’ll have the same thing as we heard on this point.
I found this mention (of the need to invert) in the Cubase manual, with mention of the Microsoft and Dolby patterns. No explanation, however, as to why this choice was made (to align with Microsoft).
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My understanding is that the order in the renderer plugin is swapped on the input and the labelling to the wrong order specially for Steinberg. ie its a special version of the Dolby code that exists only in Cubendo. Which again is the cause of much confusion.
Apparently the ADM that is rendered is swapped back to the CORRECT order that the rest of the world uses…except Steinberg!
Which brings me to point out another frustration with this unprofessional choice of Steinbergs.
Stems - If you are using sends or direct out to a paralell 7.1 (or greater) bus as the source for your stems, something that is required for all deliverables then the wav that is created from these busses will be the wrong order.
So that when we import the stems into Resolve or any other program we have to either split it into mono channels and swap them around or use some utility to swap it around to the correct order.
Another WORKAROUND!! is to put a mixerdelay plugin as an insert on the bus and swap around the order in that. But be careful because the internal Dolby renderer has been “hacked” to compensate for SB order you will have to keep your bed buses in the wrong order to be compatible with the renderer. Hence you will have to keep separate 7.1.2 busses for each order.
Such a mess. Please Steinberg, just give us the option to set the correct order in preferences. Correspondingly the Dolby renderer would have to also then follow the correct order to.
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This is not the case for any stems we need to create, independent of the dolby renderer. Because Cubendo inherently has the wrong order any buss that is rendered is in the wrong order too.
And no, we shouldnt have to use the Dolby renderer to make all our 7.1, 7.1.2, 7.1.4 stems for several reasons.
One being that we need to have separate mixes for each format running in parallel to the dolby mix in the same project (running a separate project for each is ludicrous) and this is only possible by sending it before it is summed in the dolby beds.
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I’m working on my first Dolby Atmos project on Nuendo. I haven’t got to the point we were talking about, but hopefully things will be fixed or have solutions by then, as I need to offer a stereo version in addition to the Atmos version. For the moment, I’m working first on Atmos, which is the most important one for me. Then I’ll see if I can switch to stereo in a parallel project (which I think I will, as a simple conversion is unlikely to give a reliable result - stereo thinking is different and everything has to be rethought on the spatial side). I also think that my mastering engineer will be able to correct what’s wrong with the channel identification before the final print.
So why the QA of Nuendo didn’t push the developers to fix this? A project-wide option is simple enough to help resolving this.
If only we could get an answer from SB! Yesterday I was on Duc, the Pro Tools forum, and Avid people are answering questions and taking part in discussions. This wasn’t the case before, but for a few years now it’s been going well, even if nothing’s perfect. This would be an example for SB to follow on the Cubendo side. If the answer is that Avid is bigger, think that Dorico does it too. There’s something about Cubendo’ SB I don’t understand, and it’s all about listening to its user base.
yeah.
however, according to my test, I found Nuendo’s 7.1 should be CORRECT:
I uploaded to YouTube: -C0JmjpQ04Y
I think what people are saying is that there is no technically “correct”, just different ways of doing it. The problem is that Steinberg’s way of doing it, while not illogical, isn’t the way other important companies are doing it (Avid, Dolby, and others). That’s the problem… I think.
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OK, so for practice, if the music I am making uses some 7.1 resources, I’ll identify the correct mapping and may re-order the channels if needed.
But for now, I just find Nuendo is CORRECT, while DaVinci is swapped.
Since Nuendo offers Dolby Atmos functions, we could imagine a Dobly Atmos option in the surround channel configuration (Microsoft standard vs. Dolby standard). What’s surprising at first glance is that we enter the Dolby Atmos world through Nuendo, but the channel configuration doesn’t follow perfectly. Here, I’ve reversed the rear and side cables, as recommended, and it works for Nuendo. But if I take it out, say to work on an Atmos project in PT, it’s going to take a physical reinversion. At least I think so. I haven’t done it yet.
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Yeah, it’s unfortunate.
I would do the reversal in whatever interface software you have available though (assuming it’s possible). So for me I’d simply reverse in my MOTU 16A routing matrix and save that as a preset. That way all it takes to adjust is opening up a browser window and switching presets.
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I didn’t manage to do this in my UAD Apollo x16, which corresponds to Dolby. But it must be possible, I honestly can’t remember. Once it’s working, you don’t touch anything else. But if I have to use several DAWs, I’ll remember what you say. I’ll remember what you say.
Nuendo renderer exports and reimports the correct channels and you have to do nothing in PT or Resolve. DCP encoding is also accurate. So it’s best to leave Nuendo to its task. Its works as expected natively, so my recommendation is to do nothing and just export the final mix to what ever package you wish.
Iam on 12 but 13 too should be the same I suppose.
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