N12 output routing issue: sends signal to wrong physical output, but not in the DAW/bounce

Nuendo
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1

Hi All,
I have a routing issue in my current Dolby setup. Before upgrading to a 5.1.2 setup I need to get this fixed.

The problem:
It looks like Nuendo routes signal to the LFE output (channel 4 output) when I’m not directing anything to it all.

Proof:
I have created a video to demonstrate it.

VIDEO LINK:

NOTE: There is no sound in it because this is a surround issue and setting that up for recording would be pretty hard. I could narrate it but I think it is obvious.

You will see an Atmos session* with a short beep to help me hear the source position in the surround field. It goes clockwise from Center > Right > Right Surround > Left Surround > Left and loops.

(I have made this screen capture with Quicktime Player on 1 screen but I have 2.)

In the screen you first see the Audio Midi Setup routing. The usual stuff for surround following : L>1, R>2,C>3,LFE>4,Ls>5,Rs>6 etc. to all my speakers.
Just to be sure, I tested the noise and all cables are routed correctly.
Then I show all the plugins and extra windows (Totalmix).

Now when I playback the loop, the sound in N12 and the Dolby Atmos Renderer follows the path that is automated precisely. No issue there. However the routing in the MixerDelay plugin and Digicheck clearly show the issue at hand.
The automated path is going in a different direction. It travels from Center > Right Surround > LFE > Right Surround > Center etc… or something along those lines.

I start soloing and muting in MixerDelay and then you see clearly what happens in Digicheck (and my outputs).

*The session is available here > LINK
It is copy of @Rajiv_Mudgal Dolby Atmos template (thank you!).

My conclusion:
I’m not sure if I am doing something wrong, but something is clearly wrong.
I tried similar surround panning in Soundminer and that does map correctly.

Maybe the communication between N12 and the Fireface UC is wrong? However the Audio Connections setup is shown in the video as well, so this should be correct.

My hardware setup:
Mac M1 Studio Monterey
Fireface UC
5.1 Dynaudio speakers
I have latest drivers installed for Fireface and the latest version of Digicheck as well.

Thanks for any help/tips

2

The signal to the Atmos renderer is processed correctly.
Your problem is in the CR. During the conversion from 7.1.4 to 7.0.4 there is a regrouping of the signal. If you click on the arrow to the right in the downmix area of the CR and then open MixConvert, you can test this yourself: Change the configuration in MC from 7.0.4 to 7.1.4 and the signal moves away from the LFE. So it is not your cabling or the audio interface. :blush:

1 Like
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wow I never noticed it was on 7.0.4. thanks soooo much. really thought I was going crazy :slight_smile:

4

Glad I could help. :+1:

However, the behaviour of MixConvert is not entirely logical: As soon as you select an x.0.x/x.0 layout, the channels seem to move up one position. This only happens when you select a layout without LFE.
This cannot be intentional. Especially as you have no control over the LFE signal when selecting an x.0.x/x.0 layout. The volume control works normally for all other channels, but is useless for the LFE. (Which is understandable for a layout without LFE. :wink: But a signal still goes there.)

This seems to be a BUG.

P.S.: Where can I download Nuendo 12.1.52? (See your profile.) I want it too… :rofl: :wink:

5

Ha thanks yes i was actually lying awake last night thinking about it. This needs to be fixed.
Ill change the version number (you are the 2nd person that notes it haha).

6

Hi @MAS my I indulge you with a mystery?
i just connected 4 new speakers (tops).
I routed everything in Nuendo appropriately (audio connections top speakers are linked to the right physical outputs).
The Internal Renderer and control room are set to 5.1.4 and I see signal that should come from top speakers in N12 and the Renderer.

However: I hear nothing and i obviously also get no input signal in Totalmix (i run RME) from the renderer.

I’m on the road now, but can post screenshots of setting windows later…

Ps. If you don’t have time no worries…

7

I like mystery. :wink:

Am I understanding correctly that you see a signal in the renderer, but there is no signal coming from the speakers? Not from any of the speakers.

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Only no signal from the top speakers, the others get signal. I’m doing some more testing now so hopefully it’s an oversight on my end somewhere.

9

If the signal from the top speakers reaches the renderer, it is not due to incorrect routing within the project. This is usually the hardest part. :innocent:
But it is strange that you can hear the signal from the other channels. Have you only assigned the renderer in CR? Or do you have other outputs in use?

10

Found it! Silly me had the Mixerdelay on the Control Room with Top speakers still not enabled.

11

I’m glad it’s working now. Nuendo is a complex piece of software, so it’s easy to overlook things. :wink: May I ask why you use MixerDelay? Unfavourable setup conditions for the speakers?

12

yes, and it is currently a stopgap between two options:
1 . buying an rme Fireface 802 FS with hopefully RoomEQ implemented

2. SoundID multichannel.

I have a very small room. 4 Meters wide 3 meters deep and 2 meters high.
So I’m not expecting to be become Cinematic Dolby atmos certified :wink:
However I do some edit and mixing in Atmos for radio drama (binaural) and wanted to explore top speakers.
Mixerdelay is great for setting delay and volumes but it is very very easy to forget how you set it up. And since the 4 tops are new I never thought about MixerDelay.

Anyway, next step first is doing a good REW of my room and probably do some more basstraps since I have some issues around (you guessed it) 80-240Hz that muddle my stereo image and bass perception.

13

If you don’t want to do a mix for the cinema in your studio, you can do without. :rofl: (You’d need a Dolby RMU for theatrical anyway.) :wink:
Even small rooms can sound good. A low ceiling height is most likely to be a problem if you want to mix in Atmos. And if you want to use 6 ceiling speakers, sufficient ceiling space is obviously important. Our smallest studio with Atmos is not much bigger than yours. Only the ceiling is higher.

You should have heard every Atmos mix “for real” at least once. However, as almost every DAW now has an internal Atmos renderer, there will be more and more productions in Atmos mixed exclusively with headphones (binaural). At the moment, we are testing in our smallest Atmos studio whether we can achieve a halfway decent Atmos mix with the help of head tracking. (Only pre-mixing, though. The final mix will be done in our large cinema studio.)

So far, I think the results are quite encouraging.

14

‘You should have heard every Atmos mix “for real” at least once.’

Yes! This is partly why I invested in the Atmos tops. I will definitely do checks in a bigger room however (like any mic for cinema).
I won’t go higher than 5.1.4 in my current room, it’s too small. Thats ok though if there will be more Atmos work I can rent a bigger room for projects that allow it.

Thanks though for the insights!