New clip gain on left boundary is not good

Popular request is an understatement!

The thread on that topic (demanding sb change it to what it is now) was what …2000+ posts long? Plus however many thousands of requests went through surveys.

On the other side …12 people (just joking) said, “nah, leave it is is”.

Sb of course…made the change.

The old way isn’t coming back…not unless a 5000 post thread appears, demanding it :slight_smile:

Me…I’ve never had a preference myself. I can pretty much work with anything, esp knowing Cubendo is always in the midst of evolving.

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Stingray,
Thank you for your time!
“the disadvantage of the old system was that the white line is NOT visible for events where you applied gain above 0dB.”

  • It’s true: Point given! Although I would mainly use it to change the volume below zero, I recognize that you are right about that one. This line could have been placed in the middle of the audio clip. That would be a fix! Not its elimination.
  • I compared the two options you described here. I would be very happy if the first one, instead of being displayed in the left corner, could be displayed by a white line… The volume control in dB is only shown if the clip is open enough… so, it doesn’t solve my need.
    Note: apparently it works for many of you, but I’m here talking about my needs (I’m sure many will follow)
  • in the second option: it is a completely different way of working. Many clicks to achieve what used to be a single mouse click… and most importantly, let’s be serious, what happens to the past? The various unfinished projects still in progress, not to mention the compatibility with 24 years of Nuendo versions? I can’t open a project prior to NU14: all the information in these volume lines is nullified!! It’s a LOT, a lot of edit work that gets undisplayed, lost!
    I’ll try to work with NU14 for oncoming projects just to get the taste of this new NU14 workflow I will have to keep opening current and previous projects with version 13. Making drastic changes without taking into account compatibility with the past is risky. In 35 years I’ve seen some DAWs making this mistake… they won customers but did loose many others…
    Stingray, thank youy again for your time, for your effort to bring me up to date.
    Let’s call it a day now… i will have to try and see if it fits my workflow. Seams difficult for now…
    Thank you!

Cheers

That’s not going to happen. Among other things, implementing a white line for the volume control would clash directly with the event volume curve white line.

No it doesn’t, but using the option with the Range tool (explained above) does, and it also does so with a white line whose default position is in the middle of the event.

It remains the past. Unfortunately most of us have to adapt to the present and the immediate future - IMO adapting to new techniques is one of the secrets to using a DAW. It’s probably unreasonable to expect developers of software to never change anything. At various points in time there will be new developments and techniques especially when the vast majority of users are actually requesting those developments (see @DosWasBest’s comment above).

Partially correct… but the data is not really lost. To avoid inconvenience standard procedure would be to finish those projects in the version where they were started.

That’s not true and probably a misunderstanding of the subtleties of the new system. Once you have established a volume curve on any event using the Range tool, it is a single click and drag thereafter to adjust the volume using the handle which appears at the top mid of the event, in a similar manner to the old system.

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DosWasBest… Many people go to McDonalds, I prefer better options… :wink:
In 1999 everyone was working with a Apple Mcintosh PC. I went PC and with windows 98 SE, i had 3 screens connected. Not many people can say the same.
I am sure I would learn A LOT from all those that asked that change. I am quiet sure, they could all learn something from me too. I am not being stubborn. I just work from a way, i never came across better options and believe me, i worked with many people and came to see many people editing audio! Many of them work now the way i do. I will try to see if it is possible to have a good workflow this “new” way. As i said before, I have a tool that allows me to do my job: any previous version of Nuendo prior to NU14 will do!

IMO that analogy makes little sense. How is the new volume management of 14 comparable to going to McDonald’s? The inference would seem to be that you deem all those who use / prefer the new volume management of 14 are somehow lesser than you. Isn’t this a rather pompous assumption?

How does this relate to event volume management in 14?

Hey there - when I don’t understand something, I ask. I’ve read though this thread again, and I’ve been reading it all along, but I’m confused, and I don’t want my lack of knowledge to prevent me from learning something new or different.

I’m working on a new album as I write this, and the current song I’m writing/editing is based on several generative tracks for plugins I wrote in Live - I’m using the clip gain extensively right now, but haven’t yet begun the more painstaking volume curves. I only say all that to explain my editing mode.

May I ask why the little white line matters? I’m really sorry if that’s a dumb question, but unless all audio events have the same gain, how is knowing the arbitrary relative gain shift of an individual clip helpful in such a dramatic way? I see the gain adjustment clearly indicated on all audio clips, but they don’t really “mean” anything to me other than a general inference of a potential mix being intimately familiar with every clip.

Is this a “post” requirement? Curious more than anything…

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Stingray, i thank you again for your time.
I will have to give it a try and only then, i can (and will) come back and repport my experience. My wish? I wish NU14 works for my needs and i can keep being a happy NU user. I never wanted to come here to go on someone nerves. I don’t have the time to spend on forums (my bad, i know) so, don’t think I am the kind of people that just show up to disturb, to be against everything. That is not my goal!
“To avoid inconvenience standard procedure would be to finish those projects in the version where they were started.”

  • can take several years… i know, crazy, isn’t it? I am sure not to be the only one…
    “That’s not true and probably a misunderstanding of the subtleties of the new system”
    That is exactly what I hope for me! I want it to work! If I ever gave the ideia of disruption, never was my intentionto do so: i want it to work!

Again, thank you for your time
Stingray, if we would be neighbors, i would show to you how I do it! I am sure you would apreciate to see how much i enjoy to simplify what can be complex

Cheers

WOW…
“The inference would seem to be that you deem all those who use / prefer the new volume management of 14 are somehow lesser than you. Isn’t this a rather pompous assumption?”
No, it says that people that didn’t ask for that change, can also have a positive a functional workflow, also acceptable and legitimate.
The argument that “so many” asked for the change, was to take away any relevance of my point of view?
“Isn’t this a rather pompous assumption?” Not my intention…could be the other way around, i could say, no?

“How does this relate to event volume management in 14?”
So…was too off topic? Sorry!

Where does all that good energy came from now?! Was me?

What you say is relevant and legitimate.
There’s only one way: we would sit together, you would show me how you solve your tasks, i would show to you how I would solve mine. I am sure, we could both take profit of that.

the way I do it is not my creation. I mixed several ways, I apply the most convenient technique that adapts to the proposed task. I’ve never seen better because that’s how I learned to do it, out of all the options I saw. As I say, in this particular case of editing audio in classical music, this is how I best resolve the situation.

Thanks for the reply, and sure - I understand personal workflow and the differences we all share. I meant from a technical/engineering perspective, as in “when you look at the little white line and see a generalized gain adjustment, what does that tell you from an audio engineering point of view?”

Not having that answer doesn’t detract from your personal preferences, of course; “because I like it that way” is perfectly valid (to me, anyway). I just wanted to make sure that I wasn’t missing something from an engineering standpoint.

Thanks!

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““when you look at the little white line and see a generalized gain adjustment”

  • it tells me quickly where are the clips i had to modify with volume. Visually easy to find, if i have the need to know how much i changed, just one mouse click on the top of the white line, i get the value. Helps the musician, musical director sitting near to me to organise him self. Is just a tool, guiding our workflow, deciding if we use that note, bar, clip or if we take one from a differente spot, helping us to analise if musicians changed their dinamics a lot or just a little. Than, easily you copy and paste in new location and adjust volume again.
  • Could i answer your question?
    Cheers
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Holding down the modifier keys it is still one mouse-click to get the value:
grafik

You can click anywhere on the event, no need to hit the area around or above a line.

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Got it - I’m always interesting in not just “how” people approach their workflows, but “why,” so I appreciate the response!

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Johnny_Moneto,

thank you for you answer.
Yes, is just a mouse-click. That is perfect (two mouse clicks, if would have to be, could also be perfectly acceptable).
How can I find in a project easily that i did that volume change? Is there anything that shows me the volume changed clips?
Correct me (I am trying this new tools):
If i use this “Holding down the modifier keys it is still one mouse-click to get the value” i don’t get any sign of volume changed clip in a project.
If I change to “range/selection” tool, double click the clip, i get the white volume line but, doesn´t show me the volume I changed with the option "“Holding down the modifier keys”.
Assuming i need to see volume edited clips in a project, (option A is not possible to see it) I would have to go then option B: white line, double click with the range/selection tool: It creates a white line, very visible (nearly doesn’t matter how narrow the clip slice is) but after changing volume, and being able to see the white line, i don´t find where to read the value I’ve changed moments before.
Do you know how to do it?

Thank you!

It took me a few read throughs before I understood what you are looking for but now I get it. I get that this is something you’re used to and if you’re doing this all the time it’s really an annoying thing to lose.

I really do think you probably would do well to judge everything that N14 has to offer that’s better than N13 and then just give it maybe a couple of weeks on new projects, if N14 in general has enough new improvements to offer. I’ve been in your situation myself and it just takes time to adjust and get to the point where everything is “automatic”, but it’s usually possible. In fact, not without irony (considering may PT users requested an update to clip gain in Nuendo) it was a noticeable effort switching from being mainly on PT to Nuendo, specifically for editing. This was years ago for me, but definitely the lesson was to just “suck it up” and do the work to switch over. I think for you it might be the same.

Once you have some new work lined up or downtime just give it a go. It might be better to do this sooner than later if you find other things in N14 that are beneficial to you.

Anyway, hope it works out for you.

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MattiasNYC, i tahnk you for your reply!
“and if you’re doing this all the time”
Yes, it is the best way I ever came across that allow me to respect the audio clip: the audio itself.
I am sorry not being a English native speaker and so, i might not have found the proper way of describing my tasks, the way you would. That makes it possibly complicated for you to understand what I mean. I imagine that i got eventually some less positive answers according to the way people is able to read and interpret my post…oh well, we all will get over it.
So, I tank you for your very positive answer and yes, as I stated before, i do have a tool that works just fine for me. Apparently is not NU14, I will have to stick with NU13.
The way I work, (and from all I’ve learned and saw) is the best way to deal with any maestro around me during audio edits. This people don’t have neither the time, patience or understanding of what we do in order to achieve what they are asking for. It’s very common for them to easily get wrapped up in their own ideas, which is understandable as they have to listen to many hours of audio takes, which really confuses them. After the decision is made, everything can be reversed. I have to be quick and most logical to respond technically to their thoughts. Compare clips, compare notes (note by note) and it is very necessary to have the volume information changed (or not) and be able to change it again “just to try”. Without any discredit, in other musical genres, I don’t even waste 90% of the time I spend editing classical music. So I apologize to everyone I bothered with my technical needs, but I also didn’t come here to offend or upset anyone. It would be very stupid of me because I came looking for answers, not sarcasm… My tool as changed forever… I am sad about it, it was the best for my pourposes: I can ensure you, i am not the only one. Many people work like me… I work like many others. I will give a run on NU14 but for now, as i see, it doesn’t solve my tasks…

Tank you
Cheers

Thor.HOG,

I thak you very much for your time, again!
I would like to be ablke to show you how I do it. Who knows you would have a better NU14 answer for that.
I am okay with NU13 but…of course i would like to move on, to NU14, thats why i bought it! I got annoyed that, suddenly i could’t understand the tool i’ve being working with since 2000…Or was the beginning of 2001?
Then I came to ask questions, to ask Steinberg to bring it back again…oh well, i was not interelly well received… but, it is what it is, isn’t it?
Yes, the only way to do what i do is throught clips. I can’t use volume channel lines for that. Clip by clip, merging them, changing volume on clips. I don’t really need the exact value: I need to listen! Its a different clip, same note but, they pressureed the violine bow diffrently so, i need to know that I ve changed the volume bars before for that very same part, and so on…

cheers

Well, maybe not “better,” but at least “different.” I try to limit my “do it this way instead” replies until someone asks (even when implied) but here’s what I was thinking, based on my observation and your stated purpose in using the “white gain line” in your workflow. This will require that you think “differently” when you look at your project, and who knows, that may be a good thing.

First, my observation. Your N13 screenshot shows 67 clips, and 32 of them have gain adjustments. So, just under half of all the clips just in that screenshot would indicate some manner of action needed. That seems unmanageable to me; my guess is that your brain is actually doing a lot more than just using the gain line to make that decision. In fact, since half your visible clips indicate a “decision is needed,” I would guess that the gain line may not even be your primary source for that decision - but your brain has gotten used to seeing it. Something to consider, anyway - it just doesn’t seem efficient.

In your two screen shots (N13 and N14), I actually see different clip gains shown between the two screen shots. N14 shows us the gain adjustment in the clip itself next to the wee ramp icon. 4th from the bottom, Quartet MS-S+ _26 shows -1.67dB in N13, but there is no value at all in the N14 screenshot. It actually looks like none of the blue center clips have any gain adjustment at all.

So it would seem that the N13 project is different than the N14 project; however, in the N14 project I can literally scan the entire image and not only see which clips have gain adjustment, but where they are different. In less than a second my brain tells me that all pink events are -4.92dB without even having to click on something. In the N13 screenshot I actually have to look for lines and count tracks (you won’t because you know the piece) but that also tells me, when I look at it, that I don’t get all the info I need the old way.

You’ve already made extensive use of color here, and there’s a reason for that. I think the question you have to ask yourself is “do all 32 events shown REALLY need my attention, or am I making my brain do double-duty to identify a subset of events?” If the answer is “No, they don’t all need attention,” then I would submit that you may have already solved your problem and that you just need to extend your use of color to identify the clips that may need attentions - which would also work no matter what zoom you have.

As @MattiasNYC indicated, maybe spending some time in N14 and letting your brain get used to reading the gain numbers on each clip in conjunction with a color scheme change might be your Shangri-La. A “happy side effect” may also be that you’d be doing something your watching clients would immediately be able to understand, rather than presuming they know what the white line is. That may not even matter.

But I think you have an overall opportunity here to at least take a look as how efficient your old way even was, and potentially use the “forced adoption” as a primer to explore better ways.

Either way, it sounds like you’ve got a few things you can try from the rest of the forum members, so I hope you find something that works for you!

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Haha…you don’t have the edge at all in that one :slight_smile:

…I had similar from 1987 on, particularly when the first pc daw came in during 1996 (saw)…as well as some of the synchronizer+audio forebearers that other guys toyed with in 1994.

I also owned every fareaking 1989+ sequencing program on the planet for every platform be it pc, c64, amiga, atari, apple.

For me… 12 pcs (mostly 286s with a few 386/486) networked together via lantastic…saw+, musicquest, smpte sync, dal cards, hybrid arts, passport, synchronized to the 24trk machines, synchronized to the keyboard room…massive massive pc-based system that outflexed anything Cupertino ever released. All routed through my vca automated 64chnl console of that time blip.

Only exceptions were the various graphic arts, magazine ad layout etc software Apple had in 1988+…which …fine…left that to my agencies who did that kind of work for me in their own Mac Nirvana. Wasn’t in to that stuff at all as diy.

Mostly each pc computer in dedicated tasks with travan backups, floppy backup spans, dialup modem.

Four Mac plus machines, dual floppies…whose only purpose in life were for converting files back & forth from dos/win95..later win98 …to system6, system7 Apple os…then to the performa stuff on.

Apple has always been a necessary evil…but I’ve always kept Apple products in firm subservience to the pc computers from day one.

Biggest wtf joke I ever saw was digidesign’s release of the first incarnations of pro tools at Namm …and the amount of external hardware you had to buy…the price…and the low roi …imo…compared to what I could already do.

When one goes through a history like that (no internet mostly …every man for himself figuring systems out)…not to mention recording audio in the previous studio years of 1960-1988 before computers…

any routine change over time with modern-day Cubendo is a-ok with me.

I can deal with the changes. I can figure it out. No biggie. :slight_smile:

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My guy, if you spent half the time trying out the new clip gain features and finding ways to use them to your advantage as you spent writing essays here on how great your method is and how you are far superior to everyone else, you’d be miles ahead. Bonne chance.

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