No "num" key on Mac keyboards

The “num” key is used in many keyboard command equivalents. But none of my Mac keyboards have a “num” key. What Mac users should press in its stead isn’t even shown in the online or .pdf doc.

This page badly needs to show a Macintosh keyboard equivalent for wherever the “num” key is.

http://localhost:52978/dorico/keycommands/

Also that web page should be part of the .pdf manual.

For use until a Mac equivalent for the “num” key appears in the documentation, could someone please tell me what key to use in its place or how to set up a conveniently-located keyboard equivalent for it that won’t override all the other keyboard usages that those of us new to using Dorico (at this point just abut all of us) can use?

  • Laurie

A localhost web address is a file on your computer (or a non-existent address on mine), so predictably your example is not accessible to anyone on this forum. This forum does have the ability to upload files and web addresses in its full editor.

Num refers to the numeric keypad found on most full-size keyboards, but almost never found on laptops. For those keyboard shortcuts using the Num key, on a laptop you will probably have to substitute your own commands.

At some point, it would be nice for the localhost Keyboard Shortcuts help page to have a version for laptop keyboards, or even to intelligently detect what kind of keyboard you’re using when the page comes up.

I was not asking only about my laptop (MacBook Pro) but all Mac keyboards, including the standard full extended keyboard with number pad and every key available for Macs, on which there also is no “num” key.

Why release a Mac version of Dorico with only Windows keyboard shortcut documentation? And why isn’t a Mac key coded into the program so that each individual user will not have to do what you suggest here to set it up for ourselves? Why does the onscreen help that comes up on a Mac at that /localhost/ address show a “num” key that doesn’t exist on a Mac in so many of those shortcuts even though you know your users have no such key on their computers?

I guess i have to repeat my initial question: What key on the Mac am I supposed to use?

Would you at least tell us the position on the Windows keyboard at which the “num” key resides? “Num” is used in key combinations in so many Dorico keyboard shortcuts that it has to be some easy-to-reach location that is also easily combined with other keys as shown. We Mac users also need to know what key Steinberg recommends that we use in place of “num” that has no other designated function in Dorico, either current or planned.

I guess you are misunderstanding. There is no such thing as a “num” key.

The word is used to refer to the numerals contained on a numeric keypad as opposed to the numerals above the qwertyuiop keys. If you have a numeric key pad it resides on the far right of the keyboard.

When you see num-3 or some such, it means you should strike the ‘3’ key in the numeric keypad. Just one key, by itself.

Both Mac and Windows machines are supplied with and without numeric keypads.

See pic below.
MB110LL.jpg

Stephen, they really appear to be referring to one single individual key by “num”, not the whole numeric keypad. And I have the full Mac extended keyboard in my studio, not the laptop version. But thanks for your reply.

I’m pretty sure they mean a specific individual key. Here are some of the key combinations that include “num”:

NUM + SHIFT + ↓
SHIFT + ↓
COMMAND + NUM + SHIFT + ↓
NUM + SHIFT + ↑
COMMAND + NUM + SHIFT + ↑
NUM + +
NUM + .
NUM + ↓
COMMAND + NUM + ↓

Most of those involve combinations of “num” with cursor arrow keys, which are not located on the Mac keypad. So it has to be some other key.

I just google searched an image of a Windows keyb and it does have a key labelled “num” at the location of the Mac’s numeric keypad’s “Clear” key. It is not near enough to the arrow keys to easily do those combinations with one hand so it requires taking both hands off of normal keyboard locations. So I doubt that’s what they mean.

Surely they must have some keyboard shortcut layout in mind for Mac users. So I will hope that someone from Dorico support will reply to my inquiry here.

Thanks again for trying to help figure this out. Until it’s figured out I will be stuck with having to use menu commands and clicking on stuff that requires sliding panels in and out instead of being able to use simple keyboard shortcuts.

I see what you’re talking about, but it isn’t a modifier key. They are referring to the numlock key, which is an on-or-off state, like caps lock. However, you might try hitting the ‘clear’ key on your keyboard and see if those shortcuts work in Dorico then. Do a search for numlock mac keyboard, and you’ll find more info.

I tried the “Clear” key. It didn’t do any of what the “num” key is supposed to do. And also it isn’t near the cursor or other keys that “num” is supposed to be used in combination with.

Didn’t they have any Mac beta testers??? This seems like a pretty basic level of feedback: Mac keyboard shortcuts should only use keys that are on Macintosh keyboards.

It’s not clear you have understood what I tried to explain. Maybe the part you’re not getting is that the numlock key is not a key modifier, but an on or off switch, so it’s irrelevant where it’s located. (It is, nonetheless, located in the same place as the Clear key on a mac extended keyboard.)

Yes they are. Four of the number keys have arrows on them. That’s what SHIFT + ↓ etc. means.

The things I don’t understand in your list as the last two, NUM + ↓ and COMMAND + NUM + ↓. Did you make a typo in your post because you didn’t realize they meant “Enter” on the keypad, and COMMAND + “Enter”? the Enter key might be shown as an arrow going down and then left.

Note, there are also arrow keys as part of the main keyboard, but at this “shortcut” level they are not necessarily equivalent. Dorico can tell the difference between pressing a number key on the keypad and pressing the same number on the top row of the main keyboard.

Daniel is a Mac user, and I think he would have noticed sometime in the past four years if a bunch of function keys didn’t exist!

Earlier Macs used to use the Fn+F6 key combination to turn number lock on and off. But that was some time ago. It would be even more awkward a stretch if that works.

i was wondering if Daniel used Windows or Mac, so thanks for that info. Did not want to bother him but I guess I better ask him what key he uses.

The Mac numeric keyboard does not have cursor keys on it or a mode that switches the numeric keypad to double as cursor keys. The arrow keys are a separate area of the keyboard.

The Mac has a pair of modifier keys named “command”. I don’t know what the Windows keyb’s equivalent is though it has one. They are located next to each end of the spacebar. The num keypad has an “enter” key and it functions the same as the carriage return key.

I didn’t make a typo. That was “cut and paste” from the Dorico Mac keyb shortcuts on my Mac’s screen, The "enter’ key wasn’t used in any of those shortcuts. Those arrows would represent cursor keys.

command=ctrl
option=alt

I had a look through the commands list- isn’t it the case that each Num+ command is duplicated by another key combo with an identical function? There were a couple not duplicated, like Num+ +, for Fast Forward, but that worked regardless.

In Write mode to produce a rest in Dorico the manual states: press comma “,” and “Any” key.
Where would I find…?
sorry :wink:

Dear k_b,
This “any key” has already caused problems in the very first weeks of Dorico. It should actually be written “any note key”" a, b, c, d, e, f, g
[edit] I just realized this was a joke…

option = alt works. But the Mac also has a “control” key that is separate from both option and cmd. In fact there are 5 modifier keys: fn, ctrl, opt, cmd and of course shift.

I don’t have my dongle so can’t check for them right now, but thanks for the clue about there being duplicate functions with alternative key combos. That might turn out to be the solution.

Yes. Every function with a Num shortcut also has another one.
Screen Shot 3.png
It’s not clear why: I suspect it may relate to something on Windows keyboards. As Laurie points out, there is no NumLock key on Macs, and Num + makes no sense, as the arrow keys are not on the numpad.

“Num + +” does indeed work: just pressing the + key on the numpad moves the playhead forward. (Pressing + on the main keyboard doesn’t.)

Some do. See https://www.megamac.com/products/newertech-wireless-aluminium-numeric-keypad-eu?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=googlepla&variant=17998323845&gclid=CNOk4vC17tECFQk8GwodfTwITA - arrow markings on the 4, 5, 6, 8 keys.
http://www.apple.com/uk/shop/product/HD389ZM/B/belkin-wireless-yourtype-numeric-keypad-for-imac-and-macbook?afid=p238|sZZJKxuOm-dc_mtid_187079nc38483_pcrid_104154899041_&cid=aos-uk-kwgo-pla-btb-slid--product-HD389ZM/B-UK has separate arrow keys.

I can’t help feeling you are missing something rather basic here. Try an experiment to see how Dorico describes the keys when you create your own shortcut. Go to the Edit menu / Preferences, select the “Key commands” pagei in the window. Then press a key on the keypad and see what Dorico says in the “New Key Command” box. If you press another key it will overwrite the first one. Don’t click “Add Key Command” - just close the window with the Close button.

Daniel has said that the “standard” shortcuts were designed to work on laptops with no keypad for both Windows and Mac. But if you have a keypad, there’s no reason not to use it if you want. You can redefine the keypad shortcuts so the number keys on the keypad do something different from the number keys on the top row of the keyboard if you want.