Note expression cc7 affects volume of all subsequent notes on Track?

#1 Volume is affected by the Controller lane cc7 at bottom of window
#3 I used Note expression main volume to lower the volume of note #3

Then the Next Note #4 inherited the volume level of note #3 - even though I did not
Select it and apply note expression to it. Initially , after using Note expression to lower the
Volume of Note #3 - The volume of note #4 was just as low as the volume of Note #3

I Then Used note expression On Note #4 . This time to raise the Volume and then drop it . Afterwards - it’s volume was much higher, at the start of the note - than the volume of #2 .

Is this Standard behavior ?

The thing is, a continuous controller like cc7, Volume, is a channel control parameter. It controls the volume of the midi channel, not the volume of individual notes. Whether the controller is in Note Expression or in the cc lane, it’s the same control.

Thanks , for the reply , but Not understanding that.

I do understand that Note Expression can control the volume of individual notes And i sorta understand that CC controllers are midi Channel based and somehow Note expression is Not …and apparently that only means that note expression can address 1 Note . But the CC7 controller lane can also increase or decrease the level of 1 Note ? Squiggle line up/Down ?


But what is confusing , is when you say , " Whether the Controller is in Note expression or in the CC lane it’s the same control." It’s not visually at least .

If I have a continuous controller like cc7 loaded AND i then use note expression to raise the volume of the 3rd long note - how is that the same control - aren’t they are working differently ? For one, the CC lane at the bottom will show no updating of the volume at note 3 , in the CC controller lane.

I think I do get what you mean by “They are the Same Control” - BECAUSE IF - they are the Same control … THEN … Note expression would work like the bottom CC7 controller which requires that all notes after note #3 would have the same volume - until you Changed the volume by intervening in the volume level after the end of note #2 ? Because that is how the CC7 Controller lane in the bottom works ?

Another thing that is sorta confusing , is that if I want to affect the volume level of individual notes on the track , I can do that with just the velocity lane … I guess Note expression is just much more precise…AND can change the VOLUME of an individual NOTE in the CHORD whereas velocity lanes cannot …without going thru a procedure to separate the chord notes onto separate tracks ?

No, actually cc7 controls the volume of the channel, not the note.

If the notes are on different channels, it can work like that. or if you are using a VST3 instrument where the dev explicitly enabled this, per note controls are available. Otherwise it’s just a channel message.

They are though. and the messages are both sent to the channel. One wouldn’t use both at the same time generally speaking.

The thing to understand is that the continuous controller message cc7 does the same exact thing whether its container is a note or its container is the controller lane.

Note expression is a proprietary set of functions that was added decades after the MIDI spec was set up.

You replied :

I do understand that Note Expression can control the volume of individual notes
[/quote]

“” No, actually cc7 controls the volume of the channel, not the note.""


Confusing - because everything I have been reading about note expression is that it can control individual note volumes and I do draw volume levels for individual notes using note expression.

But I can use CC7 to effect the volume of individual notes ON the Channel - it’s just tedious and imprecise to draw the Pencil line up and down and match it to each note . So If I wanted the whole track to increase in volume , using cc7 is easy and using Note expression to slightly raise the volume of each succeeding note on the track would be very tedious .

Sure, if the instrument doesn’t respond to velocity… is that why you’re using cc7 for individual notes?

No ,i’m just trying to discern what the difference is between note expression and CC7 methods … I started out asking if note expression did the same as the CC7 controller lane and made all subsequent notes the same volume …

You “seem” to be saying yes it does because they are the same thing …
But they do not seem like the same thing - but you say "they are the “same control” .

Well ok … it just doesn’t make much sense :slight_smile:

Look at it this way, it’s the same control message, in a different container.

Ok i’ll try :slight_smile:

One other thing .

When you say it’s the 'same control message ’ in a different container [I suppose one container is the bottom Lane and the other container is the Note expression box]

How to think of the control message ?

Is that like both the cc7 controller lane and the Note Expression box Send Midi Message X154 to the software ? … is the name of the Control Message … actually CC7 … is that a midi control message number ? and So the Controller lane sends a ‘CC7’ Message and then the Note expression Box ALSO sends a CC7 Control message ? And they both use channel 1 usually ?

To me if the above is the case , it seems they could have avoided Confusion by having the Note Expression add it’s curve into the lower CC7 lane to show you what is going on …instead of just a tiny graphic at the end of the Note expression line that tell’s you there is a volume change going on.

MIDI messages were defined back in the 1980s and as far as Continuous Controllers go, not much has changed. Back then, before VST, when you bought a synth there would be a listing of the midi messages that could be sent and received by the device in the back of the manual.

Here’s an example using Volume controller to send a value of 64 on channel 1

The actual message sent is 3 bytes of binary values:
10110000 00000111 01000000

To make it human-readable, the values are expressed in hexadecimal
B0 07 05

For musicians and other mortals it’s expressed in plain language using decimal numbers and words:
Continuous Controller Volume

Here they are in a neat table

Type status byte* byte 2 byte 3
human CC on Channel 1 Volume 64
decimal 176 07 64
binary 10110000 00000111 01000000
hexadecimal B0 07 40

*status byte there are several types of messages-aftertouch, pitchbend and so on, This defines which one it is, and the channel to send it on.

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Thanks for trying:

I am interested in trying to understand CC7 - the continuous controller 7 in the Controller lane at the bottom . CC7 main volume - is the Only controller i’m interested in right now . I see it in the lane and I can raise and lower the volume of the notes in the track. It works fine to do that .

What I am trying to understand is CAN I take notes after the cc7 crawling ants section in the track and use note expression on them to change them by lowering or raising only 1 of their notes ?

It’s not working - after the volume variation with the CC7 lane - I want to use note expression on the notes in the circles to the Right . Is this possible ? After the 5 single steps The Channel volume is HIGH … NOW I want use NOTE expression to take the note in the center of the Chord and LOWER IT . It’s NOT working.
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When you insert a cc7 message into a note expression box, it has exactly the same effect as inserting cc7 message in the controller lane.

What VST instrument are you using on this track. please?

GM 042 Viola from HALion Sonic
But I tried Kontakt instruments too and same problem .
What instrument would you suggest ? To make this work like you are saying it should?

I just changed the instrument to Halion 'slow moving strings ’ and Synth Pad "evolving Pad " and it still didn’t work

This patch uses Velocity to control the attack and the volume of the note. Volume is generally not used for this for the very reason you have observed- that it affects the volume of all the notes being sent to the channel.

Velocity is a very common way to do it. It is called velocity because when it was first designed it referred to the speed with which a pianists finger falls onto an acoustic piano’s key. The faster the finger falls, the louder the note would sound.

Check out this manual page:

I’m not sure what you mean by ‘this patch’
Halion Se itself ? Or the other 2 patches mentioned
Or the viola - I tried several halion instruments

I got one to sorta work …but a lot of stuttering and just seems to come no where close to working right

Now i’m using note expression on ALL these instruments with CC7 selected in the note expression to the left in the inspector .

That link seems to be for a VeLOCITY lane - I want to use only a main volume cc7 note espression … are you saying that will not work with halion ?

So what instrument would you suggest that would work with note expression and CC7 selected in the left side of the inspector ?

I’m telling you you cannot use cc7 for this purpose at all. It is the wrong tool, it’s just that simple.

Also, please let me know there is a language translation problem, I think there must be because your replies appear to not be informed by my posts.

Ok so I’ve been trying to use the wrong tool for the last 3 days
No problem … what I will do is use the velocity Lane and Note expression :slight_smile:
And see if that works
Thanks,

I’m an English Major , born in Oklahoma

English Major- that’s the problem, I was writing for an English Colonel! :rofl: :crazy_face: (those are self portraits, by the way)

What I would suggest you do at this point in your learning process, is to use velocity only- do as much as you can with it- the result will be a lot of learning. For example you will be able to adjust notes in a chord individually.

Do not use Note Expression for the time being, there is nothing that that function has to offer with the instruments you are using.

Well EUREAKA ! Tried it in Cubase 10.5 and it works like a champ using CC7 lane at the bottom and note expression on the last note . Didn’t work with Cubase 11. Only tried it with single note though in 10.5 . Then went back to 11 and tried it with the same instrument and wouldn’t work at all …but it’s a MAJOR difference with 10.5. This lets me hue to the first 3 notes following of the CC7 lane - and then OVERRIDE that volume on Note number 4 , using Note expression which made the volume FOLLOW the new Note expression !

Hmmmmmmm now I have to try to influence the volume of the individual notes in a chord using the velocity lane.

:man_shrugging:

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