I know this has been discussed many times in this group, but let me add my plea about fixing the syncopation options in the Notation Options.
A is wrong. B is wrong. C is correct. (At least for MANY traditions of writing easy-to-read rhythms)
But currently, with the options provided, you can only get A or B. Yes, I know you can get C by using Force Duration… it’s how I created sample C in the first place. But, honestly, C is so much more correct (in common commercial practice) than A or B that it’s quite baffling to me that C can’t be achieved automatically with the basic settings in the Syncopation Options.
To be fair, I know that they used Behind Bars as their guide for all things in Dorico, which is… wise!.. but, syncopations is one area where I think Gould gets a little confusing and perhaps not as detailed or thorough as she could be. There’s a good reference page on the Indiana University Composition Department page, that explains Rhythm and syncopation in terms of “Levels of metrical hierarchy”. It’s really not about “half bar divisions” or “beat division”, it’s more about which durations are allowed to cross through which durational boundaries. 8th notes can cross through 8th note boundaries if they start at a 16th note boundary, but they can’t cross through quarter note boundaries if they start at a 16th note boundary. Quarters can cross through quarter boundaries if they start at an 8th-note boundary, but they can’t cross through a half-note boundary if they start at an 8th-note boundary. And this applies to all levels of durations. There is an algorithmic pattern to this, but I don’t think Dorico has picked up on this.
Anyway… I’m probably shouting into the void here, but… there REALLY should be an option that allows for this type of metrical hierarchy syncopation!
We absolutely plan to return to this area of the program in future. It’s just a matter of having the right person available to work on it and it being the highest priority item for that person. We will definitely get to it.
Not only should it be an option, it should be the default. I’ve always found this frustrating and have posted about it before, but Jason has written the clearest demonstration of the issue. Option C is the most correct version of both m. 1 and m. 2, and it’s currently not possible without Force Duration.
I have what I think is a related (or possibly different) problem, but since I would call it “Note grouping (syncopation) options,” I’ll tag it to this post.
I’m trying to achieve the notation in the second bar, but Dorico insists on the 1st bar notation.
In the Note Grouping preferences, I thought I found the perfect solution with this option, although I don’t know what “…only when the bar is full” means. (If a bar ends in a rest, does that mean not “full” ?)
Anyway, my bar seems perfectly full and yet I don’t get the notation I expected, the one that looks almost exactly like the image in the Notation Options dialog.
On a personal note: I’ve worked on Dorico for almost 4 hours today and I haven’t uttered a swear word or wanted to kick the dog yet A personal best!
“Default” rests — i.e., those not “forced” to display with o, ,, y plus selected values — are absences rather than “things,” so Dorico ”thinks” of measures with such gaps (which are shown as rests) differently.
You’re in 3/4 (I assume, or are you in 6/8? No context in your screenshot!), not in a simple meter with a half-bar like 4/4.
So @judddanby are you saying that because I’m in 3/4, I’ll have to do a Force Duration to get that syncopation to notate as I expected? If so, then I think my personal best for not swearing at Dorico will have come to an end.
New users often get mad at having to force duration, because at first the circumstances seem arbitrary. But they are not; they’re just complex and some settings interact with others.
My approach has been to force duration whenever I see Dorico wants something different, so I can get on with copying. It’s quite easy to do, and then I can try to figure out Dorico’s reasons later at my leisure.
It is certainly interesting that there is a setting that controls this. And I don’t think I could have figured out it’s this one, with a 4/4 example that applies in 3/4. How did you find it? Did you have to try everything?
Also, to the team: Now that I actually read the text of this option, the punctuation is misleading. I would write “short–dotted long” with an en-dash because the second term is two words. It’s not some kind of “short-dotted” long note, whatever that might be.
I vaguely remembered running into this one before. I wasn’t entirely sure which setting it was, but knew it was there somewhere. The catch is that switching that setting definitely will have negative effects (IMO) in 4/4, so it’s up to the user to decide which setting will be faster vs Force Duration.
