Ok, so I’m not alone.
I never got Noteperformer to produce any acceptable result for Saxophones, not for Sopran, or Alt, or Tenor, or Bariton.
For most brass band arrangements, I switched to Chris Hein, which requires Kontakt, but it’s far superior to Noteperformer in this area.
Yeah, when I create videos for showing scores on YouTube, my workflow is to create individual stems for all instruments in Dorico first and then put them together again in Cubase. There is quite some heave EQ’ing involved, especially on the saxophones…
Well, “acceptable” is actually what I found of the previous NP saxophone sounds. Not great, but just good enough to not have to revert to other libraries to replace just the saxophones.
The new saxophone samples sound like they’re coming from one of these really cheap synthesizers kids sometimes get for Christmas.
I already regret having bought NP 3 weeks ago now. The lifetime license looked like a great deal because I assumed the software would continuously improve. Unfortunately it looks like it’s going in the opposite direction, at least for the instrument samples.
Tastes may differ, but here is a comparison between 5.0.1 and 5.1.1 from a few bars of saxophone accompaniment from one of my pieces.
I’m glad I had kept my 5.0.1 installer, although I have understood that Noteperformer’s support department would provide it on request without any problems.
5.0.1:
5.1.1:
That’s exactly my problem currently. Fitting these saxophones into a wind band that is playing a choral piece is just impossible, and they are such an important part of the wood wind section there…
Sadly, the second sample sounds more like the saxes in my community band. 
To be fair, the first sounds more like a tuba/euphonium ensemble than saxes, so…
I just tried to change NP’s setting so it outputs every instrument to a separate stereo channel, then added a Frequency EQ to each of the saxophone channels. Lowering the 5 kHz spot by about -6 dB helped a bit, but it’s still quite off.
The old NP clarinet was one of my favorites, the new clarinet really sounds bad. I’m not crazy about Wallander’s new plan of just focusing on its internal sounds after the demise of NPPE. He has said himself that there are limits to what can be done with its internal sounds, and we may be seeing that now. IMO, NPPE was an attempt to move forward towards higher quality sounds, and it appears NP is moving backwards now.
Funny, I find many people who were complaining about NPPE that NotePerformer was moving backwards and now they feel it is moving forwards again, so the exact opposite. There are people saying the same as you as well, but there’s a big disconnect on this.
Yes he did say himself that making further changes to the internal sounds might result in some things getting better and other things getting worse, but I think he’s taking that avenue now because there are not a lot of other ways forward. It seems to be pretty much either that or let it stagnate.
Can I ask what dynamic the saxophones are indicated with in the example?
The saxophone sound sources are identical to those in 5.0.1, but the dynamics have been adjusted to use a higher range of the same instrument. They were previously configured to use a lower dynamic range and didn’t approach the highest dynamics, even at FFF. I’m sure there are further tweaks that can and will be made, but we need to find a middle ground where the instruments fit more than one style. With version 5.0.1, we had many users indicating that the saxophones were too soft. Suppose this audio example was notated PPP-PP-P. In that case, I agree they sound too skewed towards high dynamics in 5.1, but they may still be too soft in 5.0.1, and need some middle ground. Even if we implement that middle ground, there’s a real chance you will still prefer 5.0.1 because it’s your frame of reference for this music.
Analogously, many users pointed out that the 5.0.1 strings were overly hyped to be realistic, a consequence of us processing the sound to make it more broadband. When version 5.1 was updated to produce a rawer and less hyped string sound, a fair number of users, accustomed to the hyped sound, at least for the pieces they currently work on, considered it muffled, despite NP 5.1’s strings being brighter than most live string recordings. It’s not a simple problem with a simple answer.
We can, nevertheless, not rush changes. Every time we release an update, many users report that the previous version was superior, and this has been the case since version 1.0. It’s not because our software has worsened with every release, but rather that one’s ears tune-in to a particular problem with a sound, while becoming accustomed to other issues that are subconsciously overlooked. It’s a human limitation that I suffer equally from and try to be aware of. The saxophones have fluctuated in brightness over the years in response to user feedback, pushing the sound either way.
I also want to emphasize that the primary goal of our software is to help users achieve better scores by assisting with balance, articulation, and expectation. We could easily play every note with perfect tuning, timing, and perfectly executed instantaneous attacks, but it would be less helpful since it doesn’t reveal a score’s weaknesses. If the music doesn’t tolerate minor performance discrepancies, it may be difficult or unplayable by live performers, which is an aspect we want our software to showcase. If an instrument is difficult to play in tune or attack cleanly, those are precisely the features we will include, even if a top player can mitigate the problem with enough practice, at least during exposed passages.
It’s also not a problem for us to provide 5.0.1 installers to those preferring that version.
I have noticed that when I use senza vib. for strings, I can hear a really slow and small, but noticeable vibrato. Are you aware of this? Has it changed in the new version? I didn’t want to upgrade in the middle of a project, so I could not try it myself with the new version. But it is something I have found a but distracting at times and perhaps could be improved?
We don’t apply vibrato intentionally if you’ve specified non vib., but the instruments do have humanization features that include pitch drifting, having similarities to vibrato. It’s not something we can remove without side effects, unfortunately.
this is a very important point and laudable aim. There have been times when I use native NP specifically for that purpose. However, in common with many other users, my aim is more often to try and prepare a virtual performance which captures the spirit if not always the letter of the music. For this NPPE with appropriate libraries has been invaluable and NP natively doesn’t really manage this-- although there are clearly some who don’t agree and have never used NPPE. But those who expect anything close to tonal realism in NP may be missing the point. On the other hand, in the future who knows what may be possible…
Writing for wind band, where the saxophone’s main job is to blend in with the band, the saxophone sound of 5.0.1 already was way to harsh and now it has become unusable for me. They ruin everything and I have to bring them down to “almost unnoticable” in the mixer, otherwise I could not work with this sound in my ear the whole day.
I know that you can’t please everybody all of the time - but please have some demo scores that use wind band. The demo scores I saw on youtube only compared symphonic orchestras and I have to say I really liked the change! That was until I used it for my band scores…
And just to add: I really support what you and Noteperformer are doing, and I would happily pay for an upgrade that has 2 different kind of saxophones.
“However, in common with many other users, my aim is more often to try and prepare a virtual performance which captures the spirit if not always the letter of the music. For this NPPE with appropriate libraries has been invaluable and NP natively doesn’t really manage this”
I agree, it seems like the intention of the internal NP sounds is to present an “ok” playback that is balanced. But who wouldn’t want a playback using the best possible samples/sounds that actually comes closest to what a real orchestra would sound like and could be used as a final product, rather than as a temp mockup? I think the notation playback space could really use some competition to drive innovation. Currently, NP doesn’t appear to have a competitor, which is odd in tech where there are always companies competing in the same space and trying to up the game.
For me, the newer version, while a tad hot, sound more like standard band saxophones than previous versions. I can fix any personal issues I have with them easily with the faders.
I agree with this wholeheartedly! I know for a fact this is an issue, and an all-too human one. It’s a problem with middle school band directors who don’t regularly listen to great recordings, eventually thinking that what they are hearing from their ensemble is good enough, when that is far from true.
All that being said, have you looked into the “blooming” issue I posted here? This is definitely not a psychological issue, and can be heard in the file I posted. Several others have noticed it as well.
Yes, but who would want that?
They sound exactly like some of my community band members who only practice once a week - if at all -, and use the wrong mouthpiece with bad embouchure.
The clarinet comparison above shows the same thing, not only do they now sound quite different, they sound like beginners.
I wonder if NP shouldn’t consider orchestral and jazz band saxes as different instruments. They often are, with different constructions and mouthpieces producing a very different type of sound.
Between a Caravan and a Theo Wanne Fire mouthpiece there are infinte worlds in the middle. You can’t play the same music with them. This is implied in the history of the instrument.
Being able to separate them as different instruments would likely allow a better targeted balancing.
Paolo
For me, the newer version, while a tad hot, sound more like standard band saxophones than previous versions. I can fix any personal issues I have with them easily with the faders.
I agree with this wholeheartedly! I know for a fact this is an issue, and an all-too human one. It’s a problem with middle school band directors who don’t regularly listen to great recordings, eventually thinking that what they are hearing from their ensemble is good enough, when that is far from true.
All that being said, have you looked into the “blooming” issue I posted in another thread?
To be fair, we want our clarinets and saxophones to sound like the orchestral versions, it’s just that the requirements of the program doesn’t always allow it. Between concert band (more orchestral) and marching band (far less so) and jazz band (definitely not), the kids are expected to perform with multiple styles of play. Most do not adjust well and just pick one, so we get what we get.
Also, I always trained my beginners to sound orchestral. It’s the first step, and one I was insistent about. They couldn’t advance until they sounded at least as good as me. If your beginners sound like beginners past Christmas, you’re doing it wrong.
If you refer to the “Selene” score, it does sound a bit strange and also different from the same score in Sibelius, but I don’t know the cause yet. When playing the brass from scratch, it sounds like only the first two notes have the desired attack, and subsequent notes have a slow or delayed attack. Can you please confirm that’s what you’re referring to?