November2 straight flags

Hello

I could use some help with straight flags…

I want to use November2 straight flags but can’t find a way to define the font for straight flags.
So, I’m trying to use the “Edit Music Symbol” window do change my flags.
The problem I have is that I can’t seem to find what I’m looking for using the Glyph/Range mini menu because it does not see what I’m looking for.
In fact, I would prefer to have a window allowing me to browse the font’s characters in order to choose what I’m looking for (or being able to type in the symbol sMuFl code would be faster !)
In this case, I want to use the oblique flag up and down (that you can see in the right side of the screen in the November2 font pdf)
But at this point, I don’t now how to select these…

Any ideas ?
Thanks

Yan

If you just want straight flags, have you tried Engraving Options > Notes > Flag Design …? That should work. You shouldn’t need to re-design the flag symbols.

thank you,
I know about that, but the angle of these straight flags are not fine with the house rules I need to use.
I want to use alternate straight flags, the ones in November2 in this case…
nest

Yan

By the way, the addition of an option to have flat straight flags would be really great.
Yan

Attachment from a hand written Peters score from James Dillon.
Screenshot 2018-12-31 at 12.31.01.jpg

Yan, you need to use the straight flag glyph found at U+F729 in November 2? If so, unfortunately that’s going to be a bit tricky at the moment, but if you send me your project I should be able to sort this out for you by hand.

Hello Daniel

No, I was going for U+F720 and U+F721 but I guess it’s the same problem.
But no worry for now; I’m not in a rush, just slowly learning Dorico and applying Durand house style step by step.
I have to use another font for my flags anyways (publisher made font)

But it would be very helpful if the straight flags would be in some way related to beams and beam space in general.
Some many different kind of those; that would please everyone.
It would be given in terms of partial beam length, angle and height.

Thanks for your help
Best

Yan

Here’s the low-down. Straight flags, along with virtually all other alternate glyphs, are only accessible via OpenType technology and currently this is hard coded to use Bravura’s alternate glyphs regardless of the choice of main music font. I can understand and respect Steinberg’s desire to meet their own needs first (i.e., make Dorico work flawlessly with Bravura), but I hope that someday this restriction will be lifted since it seriously limits users’ ability to use third party fonts with confidence.

What about hacking (your own installation of) Bravura to include the straight flags you need? Wouldn’t be any good if you share Dorico files with other people, but otherwise I can’t see the problem.

Alternatively, I guess you could experiment with exporting the flag glyph as an image and then importing that into dorico’s Symbols Editor.

Certainly that’s an option, but not exactly easy to do for most folks. I’ve done something similar for someone else, but that’s a temporary fix IMO.

About these straight flags again…
All solutions that are gliph dependent I tested so far are cumbersome.

I’m really thinking more and more that the best solution to please every possible type of straight flags will be to use existing beam based elements to create the straight flags.
The straight flags would have parameters like : length, angle, height.
Then flat straight flags like Peter’s edition for James DIllon or Ricordi’s for Donatoni or UE Boulez would be very easy to do.

Daniel, what do you think about his proposal ?
All the best

Yan
Screenshot 2019-08-20 at 08.26.29.jpg
Screenshot 2018-12-31 at 12.31.01.jpg

Yes, I agree that certainly one option would be for Dorico to draw the straight flags using the same kinds of primitives as it uses for beams. We don’t rule out the possibility of supporting this in the future.

I’ll hold my breath then !
Thanks Daniel

Best
Yan

Hi everybody,
I have the same problem of Yan concerning straight flags. I don’t use November2 but my publisher font for straight flags (Ricordi3). I guess if this question has been solved in Dorico 3. Cannot find it in the doc.
Cheers
Lorenzo

Dorico still draws straight flags using glyphs, rather than by drawing beam-like primitives. There has been no change in this area since August 2019.

Hello

I may be wrong but I feel Lorenzo wants to use his publisher’s font for straight flags (Ricordi3)

The issue was this :
Straight flags, along with virtually all other alternate glyphs, are only accessible via OpenType technology and currently this is hard coded to use Bravura’s alternate glyphs regardless of the choice of main music font.

Best
Yan

ps
Hi Lorenzo !

You can change the glyphs used for straight flags in Engrave > Music Symbols, provided you want to use glyphs and do not expect Dorico to draw the beams using primitives.

Hi all,

Yes, I intended just that: I would like to use the Casa Ricordi font for straight flags and was guessing how to do that in Dorico.
As pointed out by Yan, in contemporary music scores the “angle” of flags is different from the default Dorico option.
Hope this can change in the future.

Best
Lorenzo

PS: hi Yan! Nice to meet you here between the “transmigration souls” from Finale to something more HUMAN!