Nuage Controls Inconsistent

Nuendo
1

I don’t think my Nuage system has a problem. But I’m never sure, since I purchased mine used. So, I can’t compare performance to a brand new one. That being said, it seems to me that several of the features are inconsistent.

For example. The Markers/Cycle Markers. I actually find it much faster to just type in the settings on the Marker page. I do one Cycle Marker for the full project and a couple more for rehearsal sections in addition to the single markers. If I select a single marker from the marker page, the song jumps to that spot. But if I select a Cycle Marker from the marker page, nothing happens. I have to go to the master control unit and select it from the touch screen to make it engage. That seems very odd to me.

Another similar issue is HIDING TRACKS. If I hide several unused tracks on the fader pack, the tracks are still visible in the Project window and on the Nuendo Mixer, which kind of defeats the entire purpose.

The last one I’ll mention is QUICK LINK. In Nuendo, you can select several tracks, activate Q-Link and make several adjustments. But with the hardware you have to hold down the Shift and Alt butttons while you make your changes to the tracks and, if you want to type in an exact volume change, you can’t do it in Nuage at all! You have to just link the tracks, then you can type in the volume change in the Project Window and all of the tracks with adjust. Then you unlink them.

Is this normal performance for the system or do I have some type of quirks that developed over time before my purchase?

2

There are definitely things that work faster than doing them on the Nuage. I have some things on the Nuage in my workflow, but I don’t use even close to its full potential.

For the hiding tracks part, you can link the project window with the Nuage mixer, not sure if you can somehow do the same with the main mixer; on the road at the moment so I can’t check. But I can say that I myself practically never open the Nuendo mixer, I do all of that on the Nuage and always work out a few different scenes for whatever I may be working on. One of the most valuable functions to me.

There are many things that could be done better and be improved. Looking at the version history, they certainly added a bunch of new (and great) functions when they released updates, but sadly that won’t happen again. I bought my system a few months before Nuage was discontinued, I had no idea and thought I was buying a great system for the future. Now I’m just hoping it will keep working for upcoming Nuendo version, every time I update I’m always a bit concerned.

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3

It is literally the exact opposite for me. I rarely open the Nuage mixer. I get so frustrated trying to do things on it that only take seconds on the Nuendo Mixer.

I use the fader pack for the agents, locking channels, swiping up and down the channel selection and double block view to compare channel settings.

Yes, you can link all sectors of Nuendo to Nuage. But I much prefer the view and feedback given from the Nuendo Mixer and channel view as compared to Nuage. It’s just BASIC stuff, like channel selection. On the Nuendo Mixer, I have no trouble telling which track is selected. On Nuage, the selection outline is so faint, I have to rely on the hardware’s selection light to know what’s active. The channel layout in Nuendo seems smoother to me, with a clear signal path representation. Nuage’s channel seems very “Rubix Cube” in its appearance to me and you have to look at an entirely different section of the screen to adjust the controls AND the fine turn function vrs coarse turn, isn’t nearly fine enough. I start on Nuage trying get used to it and am constantly returning to the Nuendo Mixer to get on with the work, as opposed to being distracted by not getting the results I’m expecting on the hardware.

Like you, I purchased mine a few months before being dropped, after being assured that EOL was a long way off. The master section is phenomenal. But the fader packs leaves a lot to be desired.

That being said, NOTHING else even comes close when considering alternatives for Nuendo. So, I doubt that I’ll be switching to anything else.

4

Interesting. What is it that you prefer in the Nuendo mixer compared with the Nuage one? I’m wondering also since you mention “open the Nuage mixer” - it’s always open and always right there, or are you not using a screen with it?

For me, I very rarely use the pots on the mixer, for plugins it’s just a royal mess, but for things like EQ I just do it with the mouse. What I use the pots for is basically panning. I do a lot of send automation but I always flip down to the faders for that. What I mostly have open in the mixer (same as I used to have open in the Nuendo mixer) is the inserts section so I can easily open what I want (with the mouse). I practically never use the built-in channel inspector in Nuage, instead I have programmed F1 on the mixer to open the regular channel inspector, so I just select the channel I want to tweak and press that. I haven’t thought about the selection being hard to see but I guess you’re right. I’m used to looking at the controller.

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5

I have 3 27” displays in my setup. The left is Nuage, the center is the project window and the right is the the 2nd Nuendo mixer. I usually have the 1st Nuendo mixer over top of the Nuage mixer. The fader pack controls will drop down any of the racks. So the only time I need to see the Nuage Screen is when I actually open a particular parameter. Then I have to see the Nuage screen because that mode won’t control the Nuendo view. If it did, saving dual block mode, there’d be no reason, for me, to ever use the Nuage screen.

My 3rd mixer view is the Nuendo mixer across all 3 displays. This is left over from my 20 fader Artist Series days. I would scroll the 20 fader range up and down the mixer to where ever I needed to make adjustments. That was my TOTALLY LISTENING MODE, without any visual distraction from the project window.

Like you, I use the encoders for panning. But even then, I’m on the Master Section window. If I need more than the 8 available parameters on the master view, I’ll switch to the fader pack, as there are more encoders there. I prefer that to paging in the master window. Yet again, 80% of the time I’ll open the Nuendo channel to avoid paging around in the Nuage view.

Basically, I’m going for the most analog, one know- one function, 24/7 workflow possible. If it takes even 3 clicks, I stick with the trackball! As such, my layout has a LOT of redundancy to get around that “Zones BS” that we’ve been stuck with since N7. Example: I have Q-Link available on one of my user definable pages, my Artist Transport, Avid Control and my X-Keys module. If my channel view is showing panning, I don’t waste time navigating over to the user page for Q-Link. I just pick one of the othe 3 locations, whichever is closet at the time. I’m still using my Artist Series MC to lock 4 faders: 1) Attention, 2) Bed, 3) Stereo Mstr and 4) 7.1.4 Renderer. This was, I never have to give up a single Nuage fader by locking those channels for instant access.

If I could afford an SSL S500 console or the like, Nuendo would be a recorder/editor and everything thing else would be done on the desk! But since that’s way out of any project studio budget, I’m working as close as I can possibly get to that particular model’ workflow with Nuage.

6

Seems you haven’t linked your project to the fader packs.
Selecting stuff in the project window and/or on the fader pack(s) can be 100% synchronized.

Fredo

7

Not sure how you came to that conclusion. I have said several times that all of my mixers and project window are synced to Nuage.

8

Because I didn’t read through the detailed description of your workflow.
Which is pretty non-conventional and which is why you expect things from the software & hardware that were never considered when they were build.

The Project window is the “Master” for hiding tracks, because obviously you only have a selection of tracks (group/audio/whatever) visible on the Fader packs. In a regular workflow, there is no point in having the fader packs controlling what is visible in the Project window.
I for one surely don’t want that. Remedy for disaster

Don’t know what you are trying to do with the Markers, but on my system, the playhead always jumps to the start of the (Single of cycle) marker. If that weren’ t the case, we would never be able to do ADR or dubbings, because these workflows are based on the marker system.

Quick Link implementation on Nuage is designed to work with automation.
Sure I also type in numbers when that is the quicker way to do it, but that is not what a hardware mixing board is supposed to do. The whole Nuage setup is build with the idea to use the mouse as little as possible. One of the things that Nuage is missing though is acces to the Quick Link Group Settings.

We have one Nuage system which is mainly used for recording and editing, and obviously, the mouse is ofthen used on that system. All the things that can be done faster with the mouse than the hardware are done with the mouse.

The other Nuage sytem is in the Immersive Mix Room, and there the mouse is very rarely used.

The point is that, as far as I remember, you have always been struggling with your hardware setups, and I think that is because you want to build your hardware to match the way you want to work. That will always be a challange.

Not what you want to hear, I know. I respect each others workflow and view on things.
But I have the feeling that you make it difficult for yourself.

Fredo

9

You didn’t read that section carefully either. I totally expect the fader pack to reflect the loss of hiden tracks. What I said was the tracks were still vissible on the Nuendo mixer and I didn’t understand why that was.

10

I’m not trying to do anything special with the Markers. I just want to use them. My issue there was how they (single or cycle) work on one page and not the other. The ONLY page that works consistently is the dedicated marker page on the Master Control. If select a cycle marker on the marker page in Nuendo, it will jump to the correct location. But most of the time, it acts like a single marker and does not refelect the correct range of the cycle. But if I select it from the Marker page on the Master Control section it works. I don’t know why this is different from source (Nuendo Marker page or the Marker page in the transport section or the dedicated Marker page in the UA section) to source.

11

Is “cycle follows when locating to markers” activated?
(Marker settings in edit page)

Fredo

12

Yeah, I don’t remember seeing that caveat in the manual or tutorials. My understanding is that Q-Link is supposed to provide MASS EDITING FUNCTIONS on multiple sources simlataneously and that is not automation specific. It works that way in Nuendo’s mixer and project window. It even works that way on the fader pack if I activate it from the Nuendo mixer. So, I don’t understand why it doesn’t work that way directly from the hardware.

13

Because it is another Mixer Console than the Nuage Mixer Consoles.
Just like Mix Console 2 & 3 are not linked to the main mix Console.
That’s the point of having different Mix Consoles; that you can have them reflect totally diferent things.

HTH
Fredo

14

I get that and use it that way. But if I have one of those mixers synched to Nuage, shouldn’t it do the same thing as the Nuage mixer?

15

You’re in Post and I’m in Music Production. I was just discussing this with another Post Engineer recently, noting that the two disciplines are as different as being a Helicopter Pilot vrs one who flys planes. You guys use controls I never even knew exisited and when I ask about an issue with a control that I couldn’t work without, the reply I get from Post Engineers is that they didn’t know that control was even available.:sweat_smile:

Nuendo was ORIGINALLY ADVERTISED as the Pro Tools Slayer. I still have those ads saying how they wanted to rework Cubase from the ground up. Then at version 5 they suddenly decided it was a Post DAW. That’s fine. It’s their company and they can do what they want. I’’ve been using it since Version 1. I’m just trying to navigate the changes to keep my core mission of use in tact.

16

That’s true
In Post, there is a kind of “Universal workflow” which is -apart from details- the same everywhere in the world, on every DAW.

And the fact that-being an old fart- I stepped into the bussiness when no DAW was available.
Back then we had “Flying faders” and the first VCA’s.
The workflows back then were no different in Post & Music.

With the coming of DAW’s “we” copied those workflows into the software and took advantages of the extra’s that these DAW offered.
The younger people did it the other way around, they learned the DAW and added the hardware later.
This is the reason why “we” Post engineers often look very strange when stuff is asked that doesn’t make any sense in “our” trusted way of working.

Fredo

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17

Yes (see screen shot). I wrote a cycle range of B23 to B31. Cycle mode is engaged. But when I picked on the marker page the numbers do not change in the Transport Window.

I have to go to the CM Page in the User Asign Section and select CM1 to make the numbers switch from B3 to B150 to the CORRECT RANGE of B23 to B31.

CYCLE FOLLOWS MARKER_N12
CYCLE FOLLOWS MARKER_N121920×499 181 KB

I don’t understand why the CM Page and the Marker Page on the Nuage MC are the only pages that makes the Cycle Markers work correctly. I should get the same results if I select from the Marker Page in Nuendo, right?

18

To avoid misunderstandings;

Let’s properly define what is what. Because I can’t figure out what page you exactly mean. There

  1. Marker Page in Nuendo (Left view of your screenshot)
  2. Num Keyboard on Nuage Control unit
  3. Marker page on Nuage Screen.

FWIW, On my system, wWhereever I select the cycle marker (Nuendo Marker Page, Num Keyboard (which I use 100% of the time) of the screen on the Nuage Master Controller, the cycle markers (and ranges) are properly selected.

Fredo

1 Like
19

There’s a 4th option, at least on mine. Page 2 of the UA section has 24 Marker Presets (12 markers and 12 cycle markers).

Number 1, the Nuendo marker page will not change the range when you select a cycle marker. It acts like a single marker locate point. It takes you to the starting point but doesn’t change the turn around point.

This thing has been an issue for years. You can find dozens of posts from me over several iterations of Nuendo, where I was trying to figure out why this was. I had even tried using two separate marke tracks, one just for cycle markers, to see if I could make it work. You told me that this wasn’t necessary. It SHOULD work just by selecting the type of marker on the single marker track. I would select it. Bu.t I always had to go into the transport section to manually type in the range.

Options 2 through 4 work great. I only use the number pad for specific measures, not locate points. So, this is not a big deal. The problem is solved. But, as I stated at the outset, my unit was purchased used. So, I don’t know what the factory standard was vrs, whatever personal programming the original owner might have done, Hence the questions.