Nuendo 12 Bring back LoopMash VST Instrument not just LoopMash FX

Nuendo
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Nuendo 12 bring back LoopMash VST Instrument not just LoopMash FX.

There is no other third party VSTi available to match, or come close to LoopMash on the market, and LoopMash FX cannot do what LoopMash VST instrument does. The features of the instrument inspired massive creativity for those of us who use near-chaos to get ideas for experimental works.

I don’t know, nor do I care what it would take to get LoopMash VSTi back for Nuendo 12 and going forward, but had I known I would lose access to my favorite inspirational VSTi, I would never have locked myself into another Cubase/Nuendo upgrade after such an unannounced reduction in features.

It seems as though we are being funneled and restricted toward movie, TV commercial, and anthem musak but losing the ability to do experimental sound design with fascinating tools that inspire it with truly novel ideas and structures the way LoopMash did. It was totally unique in its results. Halion 6, Padshop2, and Backbone do not replace it. Lots of granular synths exist out there but nothing could chop, glitch, mix, flow, and surprise like LoopMash VSTi with its eight ‘tracks’ at once to granulize and build the most amazing, unmatchable, surprising ideas to take us off in directions we never would have thought of or stumbled across without LoopMash VSTi.

Bring it back Yamaha/Steinberg - whatever it takes, bring back the LoopMash VSTi. It was the closest thing to artificial intelligence for experimental music Steinberg had - that no one else had. If you want to kill a useless feature, kill LoopMash FX in favor of its actually useful, full featured, creativity machine; LoopMash VSTi.

Look, I’m obviously no Luddite. I love new stuff, especially new software. I love technology and the music of the future that is coming out of it, but there is little reason to erase some of the most amazing tools many of us use to create forward motion in the field just because they have a little rust around the edges. Upgrade the best, favorite old tools, while upgrading the whole program. By the way, workarounds posted elsewhere are not long-term solutions. Thanks for listening.

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Agreed.

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Nobody has come up with definitive information on whether LoopMash was developed by a third party or whether it was written in house. It has not received any attention for a long time; LoopMash 2 first emerged about ten years ago and it was amongst the handful of plugins that did not get HiDPI support on Windows in Cubase/Nuendo 10 onwards. Steinberg used to sell LoopMash as a standalone plugin, but it quietly disappeared from the product range some years ago.

The situation with Prologue, Mystic and Spector is different. These VSTis are all by VirSyn; they are three of the engines in VirSyn Tera. It seems there has not been a new release of TERA for years. In this case, Steinberg are totally at the mercy of the third party, both in terms of their agreement with him and his availability for further development work.

It seems that active development of all the discontinued VSTis ceased many years ago, but they remained part of Cubase and Nuendo whilst they did not require any significant updating. The decision to offer an Apple Silicon native version of Cubase/Nuendo 12 seems to have triggered their removal, though the switch to Steinberg Licensing might also have been an issue.

Even if Steinberg have full rights to the LoopMash code, the reality after years of minimal attention is that it is likely to need considerable work to compile and run successfully on Apple Silicon. It is likely many of the libraries used would need to be updated, plus the operating system support modernised. The age of the code might mean reimplementing much or all of the code is the better option. Steinberg seem to have decided the return on investment for modernising LoopMash simply is not there.

Now that these VSTis have been discontinued, I cannot see them returning in the future.

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LoopMash’s origins are in a research project between Yamaha and the MTG of the UPF in Barcelona (University). That was later developed into a product by Steinberg, Yamaha and MTG. Knowing some things about research projects and cooperation in general, questions regarding the rights to the products might be one factor in play here, besides some technical issues.

Effectively, it is indeed a shame. LoopMash is somewhat unique in what it does and how it does it - there are various beat slicing tools out there, but they cannot do what LoopMash can achieve for the most part. I did use it a lot, but for a number of stability issues less so in the recent past - which is a pitty, there hasn’t been an update in around 10 years. If it could get an update to remove some of the quirks it would still be a great and valuable tool.

Well, at least I got it running in N12 (even incl. presets) and play again with it.

I second the thoughts on the other 3 synths, those are based on the Tera engines by VirSyn, and VirSyn did shift their focus to iOS completely a couple of years ago. No updates to the desktop instruments for years, so VirSyn was most probably not interested in updating the code and Steinberg was forced to discontinue them.

Did anyone use “Sonote Beat re:edit” back then? It looks like a tool somewhat similar to LoopMash, but with a single layer and using a database of loops instead more lanes. According to this New VST plug-in by Yamaha based on a previous joint research with the MTG - MTG - Music Technology Group (UPF) it might or might not be somewhat related to it under the hood.

Cheers.

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Thank you everyone for your replies.
Hey MixMike you wrote:
“Well, at least I got it running in N12 (even incl. presets) and play again with it.”
Have you posted how you did this already? Can you link me to your solution or explain it here? I guess this is my only path forward for now.
LoopMash 2 worked perfectly for me up until I upgraded to Nuendo 12. No issues at all in Cubase 11.5 before my upgrade. Still using Windows 10 now too so any Win11 issues aren’t going to haunt me yet.
I’ll be researching the links you folks posted here and continuing my attempts to get LoopMash working again in 12. I can’t give up yet. I need it. Thanks again!

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Hi,

first things first: LoopMash 2 still requires a license to run. I’m on Nuendo for ages, so I just upgraded from 11 to 12. The plugin (not the presets) can be basically copied over and N12 will load it - I tried that. If I understood you correctly, you crossgraded from Cubase to Nuendo 12. Do you still have a Cubase license for C11 or lower (or Nuendo 11)?

Cheers.

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Hi MixMike,
Apparently, when someone upgrades from Cubase to Nuendo, Steinberg kills all of their licenses for Cubase that they’ve ever owned. I still have Cubase 11.5, 11, 10.5, 10 and 9.5 on my computer, but none of them load even with my eLicenser in its usual USB port. The eLicenser no longer lists Cubase as one of my Steinberg programs. It only lists Nuendo now.
The error message comes up that I don’t have a license for Cubase and the program will not load. So, I can only load my (also fully licensed) Nuendo 12, which I upgraded from Cubase 11.5, which is the last version that I was able to use the LoopMash 2 instrument.
I do not understand why, when if I had stayed with Cubase, I would always be able to use older versions that could run the LoopMash 2 instrument. I wish I had known this would happen. I would not have ‘upgraded’ to Nuendo. I think that if you still have Nuendo versions 11.5 or earlier, you can still run them with your Nuendo license. I’m starting with Nuendo 12 so I can’t go back to N11.5, can I? Can I download it and use it with my N12 license? That could solve my problem maybe.
I assume you already know this, but one thing to note here is that there is a “VST Effect,” not a VST “instrument”, built from watered-down LoopMash 2 code that comes with Nuendo 12. It has almost none of the capabilities of the instrument LoopMash 2 and is called LoopMash FX. It is not useful in my view.
So, what kind of license are you saying LoopMash requires to run? I ran Cubase with my eLicenser license. LoopMash 2 was simply one of Steinberg’s VST instruments. There was no specific license to use it. It acted just like any included instrument like Halion or Groove Agent. Now Nuendo (and my many addons from Steinberg), runs from the same eLicenser. But now only Cubase and Nuendo versions from 11.5 and older can still run LoopMash 2, the instrument.
My most important question is: When you say you just copy over LoopMash (and it works), what do you mean? For the record, I own the Nuendo license, so I own a license to LoopMash FX, but LoopMash 2 instrument is discontinued by Steinberg, so no one owns a license to it after version 12. Although anyone using Cubase or Nuendo 11.5 or older will be able to use LoopMash 2 like they always have, I gather. I could be wrong about that. It sounds like you have found a workaround which I want to use at this point.
I want to do whatever you did to be able to use LoopMash 2 with Nuendo 12. You wrote: “Well, at least I got it running in N12 (even incl. presets) and play again with it.”
Can you walk me through the steps you took to make that happen? What folder do I copy it to? Do I copy the whole folder it’s in, or just some executable? How to I make Nuendo find it after I copy it over, or is that automatic once it’s in the proper folder? Where do I find the 11.5 presets I made and where do I place them as well?
Sorry for the rambling reply and if this takes too much of your time, I understand, I’ll figure it out eventually, I’m sure.
Thanks so much for your time and expertise MixMike, and everyone who has replied to my post!
Doug

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Check what is still on your eLicenser. If you crossgraded from Cubase to Nuendo prior to the release of Nuendo 12, you almost certainly have a “Nuendo 11 (upgraded to Nuendo 12 with Steinberg Licensing)” licence, which is capable of running the version of LoopMash shipped with Nuendo 11.

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Hi,

Yes, that was always the case with crossgrades for eLicenser licenses. The Cubase license had to be surrendered and was replaced with the Nuendo license. That apparently is no longer the case with the new licensing system.

Because the Cubase license on the eLicenser has been replaced with a Nuendo license, which cannot run Cubase.
The important question is, whether you do posses a license for Nuendo 11 - which depends on when you did the crossgrade (before or after the release of N12). You said, your eLicenser would show Nuendo instead of Cubase - that would mean you got a Nuendo 11 license and can run it. Correct?

Well, do you have a Nuendo 11 license on your eLicenser or do you not - that is the question of relevance here. If you do have a Nuendo license on your eLicenser it has to be 11, as you did just crossgrade recently. In that case you are able to download and run Nuendo 11 as well (there is no Nuendo 11.5).

LoopMash FX almost only shared the name. LoopMash itself contains an FX section with tapestop and stutter effects, and LoopMash FX is just this effects section built into a plugin, so it can be used on any audio material.

LoopMash requires a Cubase or Nuendo license to run. It is around 10 years old, so even an older license would do. Again: if you have a Nuendo license on you eLicenser, then you do have a Nuendo 11 license!

I’m referring to an existing Nuendo 11 installation on Windows here (my setup):

  1. The LoopMash2 plugin is located in the VST3 folder of Nuendo and called “LoopMash_x64.vst3”. Copy that to your VST3 plugin folder (preferrably a subfolder of course).
  2. Additionally it requires a DLL: pulseOSC_x64.dll. That is located in the root folder of the Nuendo installation and has to be copied over to mentioned folder as well.
  3. The user presets are located in your Documents folder under “VST3 Presets\Steinberg Media Technologies\LoopMash”. You don’t need to copy them, unless you’re moving to another machine.
  4. The factory presets are a different story and cannot be made accessible by a simple file copy operation. I spare you the details, wouldn’t be of much use to you anyway.

And: please do check and tell whether you actually got a Nuendo 11 license on your eLicenser (in addition to your Nuendo 12 license in your account and on your machine).

Cheers.

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OMG! MixMike! You finally got through to me in my sleeping brain. Thank you for your persistence and bold last line. I did check again, after several checks where my brain did not register that not only was Nuendo 11 listed in my eLicenser list as the first upgrade I did from Cubase 11 but that this meant I actually had a Nuendo 11 license as well as my upgraded Nuendo 12 license, which does not list on my eLicenser (which I finally understand): AND most importantly, that this meant that I could use Nuendo 11 to run LoopMash! Which I have done just now! How could I have missed your point about this?
I know you guys are used to dealing with idiots when you try to answer questions on the forum, but I’m sure I have won the prize for it for 2022. You are amazingly patient with people like me who think they have followed your instructions but have often overlooked something obvious and missed the point. I am grateful for your kindness.
Now, I will try to take the steps you so kindly and patiently listed for me to get LoopMash instrument to work in Nuendo 12 as well. But just being able to continue using it in Nuendo 11 will allow me to keep working on my old songs that used LoopMash and that I wanted to keep experimenting with new LoopMash recordings saved from the instrument to audio tracks.
Until I am forced to use Nuendo 12 when Steinberg eliminates the eLicenser altogether, I will be happy using LoopMash in N11. But by then, I will have made the transition of LoopMash instrument to Nuendo 12 if that remains a possibility at that point.
Thank you so much! I won’t call this a solution until I have fully implemented your solution to getting LoopMash to work in Nuendo 12, but I am sure that if you say it works, then it works! And if I understand and follow your instructions properly, I’ll have my favorite instrument running in my latest upgrade FROM Nuendo 11, NOT Cubase 11, TO Nuendo 12. Whew! Got it!
So, both MixMike and David _W, you are the greatest! And thank you so much for hanging in there with me until my brain started working again! Perfect!
I’ll let you know if I get LoopMash working in Nuendo 12 as my final entry here.
Doug

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Hello, First of all I want to say that I am not a Nuendo 12 user but I am a Cubase 12 user and I have just verified that MixMike’s solution works, but you need the Elicenser connected. in my case I could not access the presets, but it would not be difficult to get them. If continuing to use the elicenser is not a problem for you, you can rest easy. LoopMash would be back in your system. Just say thanks to Mix Mike,

As a side note, I don’t know if in the not too distant future you could use Loopmash without an eLicenser (although I doubt it) but it would be nice.

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So, thank you MixMike again. The solution given here only works if a user has a Nuendo eLicenser license that is from version 11 or before. Buying a license for Nuendo 12 from scratch will not allow a user to use LoopMash at all. But if a user does have a Nuendo 11 license still showing up on their eLicenser, they can follow MixMike’s instructions to make LoopMash instrument (not just the LoopMash FX) work on their Nuendo 12 installation, at least until Steinberg kills the eLicenser. At that point, LoopMash will die with the eLicenser protection scheme, or Steinberg will rewrite the code to make LoopMash instrument work with the new software protection scheme. Let’s hope.
The fix is simple (makes sense) once one understands the absolute need to have a version of Nuendo that is prior to version 12 showing up on one’s eLicenser. Otherwise, no possible LoopMash instrument. The steps are here as MixMike put them. Steps 1 and 2 are all you really need to follow to make this work.
1. The LoopMash2 plugin is located in the VST3 folder of Nuendo and called “LoopMash_x64.vst3”. Copy that to your VST3 plugin folder (preferably a subfolder of course).
2. Additionally it requires a DLL: pulseOSC_x64.dll. That is located in the root folder of the Nuendo installation and has to be copied over to mentioned folder as well.

Mine now works perfectly in both my old Nuendo 11 and my new Nuendo 12. Thank you everyone who added your thoughts and ideas to this topic.

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Thanks everyone for your help. Any recommendations to reconfigure those dll’s but on Mac?